selling my 73' CSL

Sup ACAT,

For the record I have 4 shop-cats and 3 House-cats so your "acat" and i'm "thecat", but I don't own any tractors!
I'm thinkin there ain't no "Nicker Twistin " going on here! Chicane and I are new best friends!! thats why if Chicane can show up at any ALMS race he can be my Quest, just for telling me what he thought about CSL"s

Cheer's boy's.... its lunch time at Gunnar

Kevin
 
hey gumby,

i am 100% with you. 40-60 is right on the money (I paid a ton more for mine 2 years ago). for a rhd that everyone seems to think is worth less. good luck.

cheers
 
Hi Mark,
As me and me English Mate's say...."There is a "Right" way a and a wrong way to drive a car!" You Boy's "Down Under" do it the "Right " way! Don't let anybody tell you "your car is worth less because its a "Righty".

Gumby
 
Mark, I think I was thinking what you were thinking!

Good luck with the sale Gumby. Looks like a nice car to me.
 
coupeguy is on the nose

From what I've seen from the pics and the market, your range is right. Also, coupeguy is right on the nose about trying to sell it in Europe. Given the $ to euro, many cars are going back home, as it is "cheaper" to them. I actually contacted a broker in The Neatherlands that I know (I bought my touring from him) about possibly selling my CSL, and the market there seems very good. If you want his contact info, email me directly at schnell540 at yahoo.com.
 
The "how much is my E9 worth" thread seems to pop up every 6 months or so and it always gives me great pleasure to offer my opinion, for several reasons. One, gives me a sense of self-importance, and I'm a very self-important kinda guy. Two, I like to coddle my cars, treat them like garage queens, baby them around town, ever exceed 4000 RPM. God forbid something should happen to this masterpiece of German engineering. Just ask anyone that knows me, and they'll tell you how I never drive my cars. Third, it seems to border on blasphemy to suggest that somehow our cars aren't worth as much as we'd all like to think. Look, I know come very nice and clean CSLs have been going for close to 100K, but I'd wager that unless they're genuine Bats, the owners put much more than that in to them. The days of exponential ROI has yet to hit CSLs, or any E9s for that matter. We're not talking about 250GTO, GTA, or E-Type valuations guys, and we likely never will.

E9s are great cars, but compared to a nice CSi, what does the L get you? Some fancy interior, a couple aluminum body panels and a thinner monocoque. Some fine powerplant, but not exotic at all. The only thing, the ONLY thing they've got going for them is the relatively low number made.

I own an E9 because I think it's a great combination of classic look and feel and modern roadworthiness. They're pretty, and they drive nice. I have no strong desire to sell mine, but anyone that is willing to give me enough money (and apparently it's well within the limits of what people are spending these days) would be driving away in my CSL quite quickly.

Finally, $100K for a vintage Ferrari? Maybe a Bertone Dino or a 328. I think even the once rather common GTC4s are now well over 100K.

Noto(rious)
 
corsachili said:
E9s are great cars, but compared to a nice CSi, what does the L get you? Some fancy interior, a couple aluminum body panels and a thinner monocoque.

Not even that. CSL shells were standard, prêt-à-porter units that were no different from the CS or CSi. The series I CSL was a crash program that happened in a matter of weeks based on what was on hand to meet homologation criteria for that year's racing season. The only thing that made the CSL shell lighter than the standard unit was deletion of insulation panels.

I read somewhere that the first run of factory track CSLs were finished 2800CSs that the factory bought back. If true, how's that for provenance?
 
Michael that is said with real conviction - as far as I know it is incorrect. Go up to any csl and try pushing in the centre of the roof - then try the same on a cs or csi. CSL's had a lighter gauge body.
 
So back to what makes a car (any car) worth more than its sister or brother......
It isn't the fact that it's really close to the standard model! It's not the fact that it has a few more Horse's! It's not the fact that it has a body 10 lbs or 500 lbs removed from the standard model! Seats, wings, wheels, bumpers,.....who cares but the person buying, either based on what he can afford, (with big money or small money) or which model he like best!!! If i'm a Porsche 911 lover and I want the most valauable 911 made, and can afford it, I buy an RS Carrera...Light weight or Touring. If I'm a BMW Lover and I want the best E-9, I buy a CSL Bat or a CSL normal!! "Its the number of the Cars made in that Prouduction that make it more "Valuable"."
Remember all you E-9 owners....when the price of a CSL starts rising so will your CSI. Its not good to keep fighting why CSL's should be worth more or not!! They are the "Affordable" Flagship of all BMW's (ok the M1 is cool too) so let them have their own place at the top and hope they keep rising!

Kevin....believe me or not!
 
corsachili said:
Finally, $100K for a vintage Ferrari? Maybe a Bertone Dino or a 328. I think even the once rather common GTC4s are now well over 100K.
Noto(rious)

The Dino's are in the $150 range. You can get GTB4 and GTC4's under $100K in excellent original condition if you have the patience to wait for one to show up. Not to mention tons of 330's are in the 65K to 100K range.

Anyway as a money maker, the E9 doesn't even keep up with inflation so I wouldn't hold my breath for some spike in values.
 
30csl said:
Michael that is said with real conviction - as far as I know it is incorrect. Go up to any csl and try pushing in the centre of the roof - then try the same on a cs or csi. CSL's had a lighter gauge body.

Wrong, if you look at the parts catalog they use the same roof panel:

1972 CS
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=3435&mospid=47811&btnr=41_1214&hg=41&fg=30

1972 CSL
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=3451&mospid=47807&btnr=41_1214&hg=41&fg=30

Part#: 41315750110
 
It's nice the way that you come out with a blunt 'wrong' whereas I said that as far as I knew what Michael said was incorrect. On any csl I have seen the roof panel is thinner gauge than a cs/csl. It is the well known acid test for a genuine csl. The fact that realoem.com doesn't list a different part number is hardly cast iron proof! The proof is in the pudding - when the cars are next to each other try it as I have done many times.
 
30csl said:
It's nice the way that you come out with a blunt 'wrong' whereas I said that as far as I knew what Michael said was incorrect. On any csl I have seen the roof panel is thinner gauge than a cs/csl. It is the well known acid test for a genuine csl. The fact that realoem.com doesn't list a different part number is hardly cast iron proof! The proof is in the pudding - when the cars are next to each other try it as I have done many times.

If they were a different gauge steel they would have a different part number. You "pushing" of a roof panel is hardly iron clad proof either. Unless you have a built-in micrometer in your palm I would say that test is pretty worthless.

I think this has been debunked before. I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong
 
If you had tried it which I am assuming you haven't you would see that the difference is so obvious that micrometers don't come into it and iron clad proof of a csl roof it is.
 
Not necessarily, if the thin gauge top panel was no longer available BMW would substitute the heavier gauge for replacement of both. They wouldnt do it the other way around. It seems, coupers, that chicane will not give up, will continue to be "heard" no matter what anyone says. I said the same things about the Ferrari GTB4 when I lusted after one. "They'll never reach a half million bucks". I was wrong, but apparently chicane cannot be wrong no matter what we say. His is an opinion, my opinion has been proven correct to me by potential buyer's interest in my own CSLs, they are currently a $100k car in prime condtion.
 
Fair enough Dan but thats the exception that proves the rule I'd say and I'd be pretty sceptical of such a car rightly or wrongly so. Here in the UK a number of csl's were 'created' in the late eighties.
 
The roof panel was lighter gauge steel, but my point was that the monocoque was the same as other E9s. It was relatively easy to reskin the roof at BMW, just as it was for the door, trunk and hood. The rest of the shell, or frame, as it were, is off-the-rack from Osnabruck.
 
So here I am making a seat (has to be smaller to fit) for a BBLM 512 that we are doing a fuel cell conversion (back to Le mans legal) for the Le Man's Classic....having a great time grinding and sanding and getting ready to paint......and then I go back on line to see what I have started on the E-9 Forum!!
Seems to be a little "off track" from the OG thread. I guess that happends all the time tho!
I have done the roof "Boing" thing to both a Stock E-9 and my CSL and quess what......Boing-Boing-Boing goes my roof and Thump-Thump-Thump, goes the regular heavy sounding roof of the CSI. Now for all of you C.S.I folks, you would probably think the "Boing" sound is comming from a Lighter weight roof! Now maybe I could be wrong, but in more than 33 years of preparing and restoring German Prouduction Racing and Lightweight Street cars I might know a little more than a U.T.I. graduate! Or maybe I'm just full of Bullshi_t ! I'm thinkin BMW had a little more in mind naming the CS-"L" lightweight for more than just a cool steering wheel a set of seats and a set of Alui hoods and sometimes a door or two!
Now I'm going to paint the seat and then go have a nice Mother's day dinner with my Wife...she's not my Mother! Our 2 kids would be here if they could! My son Gunnar is testing (training) in his Shifter Kart today, preparing for next weeks ALMS race in Salt Lake (LMGT-2 #48). My Daughter is newley married, living in Ft Worth Texas. So if any of you give a Shi_t about why I just told you that.....its because there is more than BMW (anything life), on Mother's Day! So Be nice to each other, the rest of today!

Happy "Mother's day" to all you Mother's

Gumby
 
coupeguy said:
Not necessarily, if the thin gauge top panel was no longer available BMW would substitute the heavier gauge for replacement of both. They wouldnt do it the other way around. It seems, coupers, that chicane will not give up, will continue to be "heard" no matter what anyone says. I said the same things about the Ferrari GTB4 when I lusted after one. "They'll never reach a half million bucks". I was wrong, but apparently chicane cannot be wrong no matter what we say. His is an opinion, my opinion has been proven correct to me by potential buyer's interest in my own CSLs, they are currently a $100k car in prime condtion.

I am not always right but I am now. If the roof panels are/were thinner, prove it. I provided my proof. I saw an excellent CSL a few months back on Hemmings and the ASKING price was $55K so don't give me that 100K crap. Those CSL's you are talking about were sold IN EUROPE!! Do understand the concept of conversion rates? Do you understand what it means to have a weak dollar vs, the Euro?
 
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