Bo, check out the beginning and end of the video where he is knocking on the panel, I've yet to use lizard skin but will be doing so on my coupe.
Some sound insulation.
- Thread starter OCCoupe
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Bo, check out the beginning and end of the video where he is knocking on the panel, I've yet to use lizard skin but will be doing so on my coupe.
When I replaced my carpet I wasn't overly concerned with the sound deadening (I wanted to hear my triple Weber's at full song) but I did want to fill the recess in the floor pans left from the original material that I removed for both heat insulation from the exhaust and to level the surface for the new carpet. I used 2 layers of the rubber flooring material used in athletic training rooms.
I have no doubt that it works well. I guess I’ve been watching RetroPower for a while and I noticed they always Dynamat. Knowing how meticoulous these guys are I was curious if they had decided on that after making a comparison test.
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I suspect there are more factors at play than just overall thickness (and even perhaps mass). Ultimately, this "stuff" needs to absorb the energy of the sounds (vibrations) within the panel. Interestingly, I believe with the Lizard Skin product that many people also apply their thermal insulation spray in concert with the sound spray. Each coating is that 40 mils (1mm). So together they start to resemble the dynomat system thickness.
I am a long way from having to decide this. But for me, I think the weight of the system would play a significant role. My car is not a CSL, but the lighter I can make it, the more agile it may perform/feel. This is a good topic to ponder.
I am a long way from having to decide this. But for me, I think the weight of the system would play a significant role. My car is not a CSL, but the lighter I can make it, the more agile it may perform/feel. This is a good topic to ponder.
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This thread was another good read as I am about to tackle this job. What a great forum.
After doing some youtube research I find the guy in this link to be a wealth of information (bordering on too much). He is not associated with a product and recommends a few and cautions against a few.
He is an audio specialist and so maybe does more application to the doors than you or I need - unless you'll be DJ' ing out of your coupe. He talks alot but so then you learn more. There are two parts and if your interested I share part 1 below.
After doing some youtube research I find the guy in this link to be a wealth of information (bordering on too much). He is not associated with a product and recommends a few and cautions against a few.
He is an audio specialist and so maybe does more application to the doors than you or I need - unless you'll be DJ' ing out of your coupe. He talks alot but so then you learn more. There are two parts and if your interested I share part 1 below.
ScottAndrews
Well-Known Member
I'd read the web site carefully. There is noise control and vibration control. The spray products are for vibration. The noise products, like any good noise dampener involves weight. Acoustic energy moves things and causes noise. If you place weight on those thing that can move, then the noise goes down. I think spraying a couple of coats of vibration dampener not he inside would be good, but then I'd follow that up with one of their products that includes some weight, like the 1/4" thick pad with a lead sheet inside.
I can tell you from experience the noise reduction from the cascade product is significant. I’ve used it on 2 e9s and have ridden and driven several e9s and my car was by far the quietest.
ScottAndrews
Well-Known Member
The key is mass vs isolation. The spray stuff has little mass, so it is not going to suppress any low frequency high energy movement (=noise). The spray stuff should get between things that might otherwise vibrate against one another causing buzzing and creaks.
Ever hear a car with a very loud sound system. Usually there is lots of buzz associated with parts vibrating against one another. The spray stuff shoudl eliminate 90% of that in ways that sheet material cannot.
So, you need both. coating to eliminate vibrations and mass to dampen noise. After reading this thread. I am going to spray the floor pan and behind the dash, maybe the inside of the doors, and then use loaded deadening sheets for everything else.
I learned some of this from insulating plumbing in a house remodel. If you REALLY want to eliminate noise from running water and flushing waste pipes you have to wrap them with a loaded (i.e heavy) material. The weight requires energy to move, and since the noise has only whatever energy it started with, the weight/mass causes the energy to dissipate, since it must move more mass.
Ever hear a car with a very loud sound system. Usually there is lots of buzz associated with parts vibrating against one another. The spray stuff shoudl eliminate 90% of that in ways that sheet material cannot.
So, you need both. coating to eliminate vibrations and mass to dampen noise. After reading this thread. I am going to spray the floor pan and behind the dash, maybe the inside of the doors, and then use loaded deadening sheets for everything else.
I learned some of this from insulating plumbing in a house remodel. If you REALLY want to eliminate noise from running water and flushing waste pipes you have to wrap them with a loaded (i.e heavy) material. The weight requires energy to move, and since the noise has only whatever energy it started with, the weight/mass causes the energy to dissipate, since it must move more mass.
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ScottAndrews
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it helps a lot. In part because, as shown in the video above, the sheet material often misses areas. That and noise has a pretty broad spectrum. The sprayed products probably reduce a lot of the highe frequency vibrations and tend to deaden the sound a lot. I would think spraying and then strategically applying loaded sheet would be great.
tdgray
Well-Known Member
Very timely as I am now contemplating this very subject. I have done some pretty in depth reading on these products. I truthfully do not see a great difference in the various spray on products out there other than some appear to take a top coat better than others. The one that seems to come to the top (maybe more widely used) is Lizard Skin. But you have to apply both products (sound and heat) for maximum satisfaction.
I am apt to go this way and then use mats for the floors as well. Having done a few cars with just Dynamat and the like I can tell you that it is a very poor heat insulator no matter which product you choose. I've tried a couple.
Best thing I ever did on one of my cars was ceramic coat the header or exhaust manifold. That is seriously money well spent. The one car I did this on, I can work in the engine bay with the car running and it feels like almost nothing heat-wise.
I am apt to go this way and then use mats for the floors as well. Having done a few cars with just Dynamat and the like I can tell you that it is a very poor heat insulator no matter which product you choose. I've tried a couple.
Best thing I ever did on one of my cars was ceramic coat the header or exhaust manifold. That is seriously money well spent. The one car I did this on, I can work in the engine bay with the car running and it feels like almost nothing heat-wise.
I used Cascade several years ago on Sixto and sprayed both the interior like Burger and the tranny tunnel on the underside. The sound difference to my Sahara Coupe is remarkable, it doesn’t have a Cascade application. Sixto rides more like a modern car in body sound quality. Lots of tech talk on this but from a practical standpoint the Cascade made a huge difference even with all that’s going on with the turbo.
Regards, Jon
Regards, Jon