Quite a while ago I had a couple of Bavarias. One I fixed up extensively. It had manual steering and a big steering wheel. It was a lot of turns lock to lock as I recall, but other than parking or U turns it drove very well. I later swapped in power steering. It worked well too. But was it more vague and un communicative? Memory is not sharp on this. In a Coupe, what is manual steering like vs power? If anyone has had both, how did it work out for you? Which did you prefer overall? I live in an urban environment. Is the Coupe manual box the same as the one in a Bavaria? Is there a quick ratio box? If yes, how hard is it to live with?
Steering Boxes. Who has had both? (Manual, Power)
- Thread starter Nicad
- Start date
Hi Bob,
I’ve had both and can assure you that a manual box gives the far more direct feel/ response. They were designed for 185/195x14“ tires and relatively light cars, so if one stays within those sizes, no issues with parking/ city streets etc. I’ve got 205/16’s front and it feels old school as I have to tug on the wheel whilst parking
The E3 manual had the same ratio as the E9/ Csl although the later 2.5cs also had a manual box with a longer ratio. The one you’d want is the E3/E9 type as in the added pic/ part#.
There is one for race cars with an even tighter ratio but those are not to be found!
Needless to say, power steering is far more ‘comfortable’ but, IMO if you want a sportier and more responsive feel, you’d want a manual box.
Keshav
I’ve had both and can assure you that a manual box gives the far more direct feel/ response. They were designed for 185/195x14“ tires and relatively light cars, so if one stays within those sizes, no issues with parking/ city streets etc. I’ve got 205/16’s front and it feels old school as I have to tug on the wheel whilst parking
The E3 manual had the same ratio as the E9/ Csl although the later 2.5cs also had a manual box with a longer ratio. The one you’d want is the E3/E9 type as in the added pic/ part#.
There is one for race cars with an even tighter ratio but those are not to be found!
Needless to say, power steering is far more ‘comfortable’ but, IMO if you want a sportier and more responsive feel, you’d want a manual box.
Keshav
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Hi Keshav, thanks for the reply. Since I don't have AC, I guess I have a bit of a light (ish ) Coupe going. Looks like too much work and expense for me to add that. I'm running Alpina rims, so that would add to heft vs the 185 tires. I recall running 215 60 14 GoodYEar Eagle GTs on my Bavaria on stock car rims I had made for my Corvair. Hmmmm, I'm tempted to swap if I could find a fresh steering box. or put one back to good order. . Do you think the parts are available to rebuild these boxes to acceptable spec?Hi Bob,
I’ve had both and can assure you that a manual box gives the far more direct feel/ response. They were designed for 185/195x14“ tires and relatively light cars, so if one stays within those sizes, no issues with parking/ city streets etc. I’ve got 205/16’s front and it feels old school as I have to tug on the wheel whilst parking
The E3 manual had the same ratio as the E9/ Csl although the later 2.5cs also had a manual box with a longer ratio. The one you’d want is the E3/E9 type as in the added pic/ part#.
There is one for race cars with an even tighter ratio but those are not to be found!
Needless to say, power steering is far more ‘comfortable’ but, IMO if you want a sportier and more responsive feel, you’d want a manual box.
Keshav
I had power steering in my CS and have a manual box in my CSL.
Second Keshav's comments and prefer the manual box.
But if you just want to cruise and avoid a shoulder workout go with power steering.
Second Keshav's comments and prefer the manual box.
But if you just want to cruise and avoid a shoulder workout go with power steering.
Bob, I have never heard of a manual box failing nor requiring a refab, having said that I recall seeing that Walloth had some part for the manual box. The swap from PS is fairly straightforward. Only hassle is to have the steering rod adjusted to length by a maschine shop.
215/60/14 should cause you no stress on your biceps
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The steering rod needs to be shortened and get knurled at a machine shop?Bob, I have never heard of a manual box failing nor requiring a refab, having said that I recall seeing that Walloth had some part for the manual box. The swap from PS is fairly straightforward. Only hassle is to have the steering rod adjusted to length by a maschine shop.
215/60/14 should cause you no stress on your biceps
There are 4 different lengths of the steering rods, so depending on which one you find, the length would have to be adjusted accordingly.
There is an adjustment screw on top of the box to adjust play. Here’s some basic info and the 4 different rods…
I happen to have a manual box just in case you want to indulge. Pm sent!
I'm sold Scott. Manual is the way I want to go. Pain in the arse sometimes no doubt, but I figure on a twisty road outside the city it will feel more natural. I'll only be driving this car to get out of Toronto, not in it.
and you have a nice 40cm Petri to handle it ...
Yes I do, and still grateful to you for generously enabling it's acquisition.
I hate a sloppy PS box out on the open road. Not so bad on the city streets.
16” wheels, 38cm steering wheel and a manual box will make you think hard about parking and pulling out in traffic.
But why would you drive a coupe in traffic?
16” wheels, 38cm steering wheel and a manual box will make you think hard about parking and pulling out in traffic.
But why would you drive a coupe in traffic?
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Toronto has now been ranked the worst traffic in North America. Fastest vehicle in town is a pedal assist bicycle
My 2 cents: Consider the ultimate use of the car. I was considering a manual box years ago, even had one on my shelf poised for my barnstormer's weight reduction plan.
Then I test drove a friends resto mod with 16s, a smaller M1 sport wheel (?) around outer SF /Golden Gate Park. I realize a larger rudder would be better but decided to keep the power unit for everyday ease of use and sold the manual box. Have had no issues in the Sierra twisties or on the tracks with the power unit.
Take away: Strongly suggest driving one before you commit to the expense & surgery. Glad I did.
HTH
Then I test drove a friends resto mod with 16s, a smaller M1 sport wheel (?) around outer SF /Golden Gate Park. I realize a larger rudder would be better but decided to keep the power unit for everyday ease of use and sold the manual box. Have had no issues in the Sierra twisties or on the tracks with the power unit.
Take away: Strongly suggest driving one before you commit to the expense & surgery. Glad I did.
HTH
I suppose having a Bavaria with the manual box would count towards sampling a coupe with manual steering as they weigh about the same. How much work is it to swap back to power? I'm figuring only a few hours if you have the crank Pulley in place? I paid a guy in New Hamshire who had a BMW salvage yard to swap my Bavaria over to power while I was visiting at the time. This was 30 plus years ago.
Removing and replacing a steering box with the engine and everything else around would be a long, tedious process. That's only if the original box isn't rust-welded onto it's 3 mounting holes like mine was.
Rek
Well-Known Member
How about a manual box with one of these fitted to add power. Is this the best of both world's. Obviously one that fits the E9 though.
epowersteering.com
BMW 2002 Electric Power Steering Kit - ePowerSteering
Looking to add electric power steering to your 2002? Look no further.
epowersteering.com
I see they have a Corvair on their home page. I always dreamed of converting my Corvair to manual rack and pinion steering due to it's vague on center feel. Someone else's project now.How about a manual box with one of these fitted to add power. Is this the best of both world's. Obviously one that fits the E9 though.
BMW 2002 Electric Power Steering Kit - ePowerSteering
Looking to add electric power steering to your 2002? Look no further.
Honolulu
Well-Known Member
Decades ago I had a '69 2500 (E3) with manual steering, in town it was... an exercise. The steering lightened up considerably when I replaced the front tires. I got a PS unit but never installed it, sold it with the car.