This is what I'm interested in and planning to do.
BMW is going to put on quite a show for the 100th in Monterey.
There will be cars there like we have never seen before.
Gary
Trans-cont E9 road trip + carb altitude talk..
- Thread starter Vbigdog
- Start date
This is what I'm interested in and planning to do.
BMW is going to put on quite a show for the 100th in Monterey.
There will be cars there like we have never seen before.
Gary
Making it big vs just let it happen?
This is a Great and Fun idea, I am interested. I did some research on similar events, one is this BMW Mini event, no doubt sponsored but that is not clearly stated, perhaps cleverly so!
http://www.bmwcarclubgb.uk/news/all/2014/08/15/minis_cross_the_usa.html
Another is the the Guinness World Record Quadtrac event that I helped with.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVXg_L7dns
In my opinion the key parts to making the quadtrac event a success were:
Good idea, this was Helen Rainthorpes.
Good and suitable cause to support, in this case cancer charity, again Helen planned this.
Making the event special so people really wanted to be part of, hence the Guinness World Record - organized by the key sponsor.
A few very motivated and well organized people to direct the actions - Helen and her team did this.
Sponsorship for funds and other resources to get the ball rolling. But sponsors want something back.
Some very effective PR, supported partly by the sponsor and a professional PR company.
So this idea has, or could achieve all of the above, here are my thoughts on how:
Plan it well in advance eg 2016 to align with the anniversary.
Few key sponsors, BMW US and a few other smaller markets eg UK and Germany spring to mind as first to offer the sponsor opportunity. Perhaps a transport sponsor would also help to move cars interstate and transatlantic.
Make this a World Record Attempt, perhaps Guinness. This is a commercial company so must be paid for, as well as reach certain criteria eg 30% of the US Road legal Coupes involved. I expect that the cost would be several thousand dollars.
Select a suitable charity, that way all organizers and fund raisers can be pushy and also people won't be embarrassed to get involved and support. Also the media are happy to support it.
Select a core team to manage, organize and make decisions.
If there is a collective view that we want to make this big, and also make it a large fund raising event for a charity then I am willing to give what experience I have and explain in more detail how we went about the last one. but I can't be full time on it - it will take heaps of planning . If there is a collective view to keep it informal, with many tagging along then that is also great, and I will still plan to come along in some form.
Any views or opinions?
C
This is a Great and Fun idea, I am interested. I did some research on similar events, one is this BMW Mini event, no doubt sponsored but that is not clearly stated, perhaps cleverly so!
http://www.bmwcarclubgb.uk/news/all/2014/08/15/minis_cross_the_usa.html
Another is the the Guinness World Record Quadtrac event that I helped with.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4AVXg_L7dns
In my opinion the key parts to making the quadtrac event a success were:
Good idea, this was Helen Rainthorpes.
Good and suitable cause to support, in this case cancer charity, again Helen planned this.
Making the event special so people really wanted to be part of, hence the Guinness World Record - organized by the key sponsor.
A few very motivated and well organized people to direct the actions - Helen and her team did this.
Sponsorship for funds and other resources to get the ball rolling. But sponsors want something back.
Some very effective PR, supported partly by the sponsor and a professional PR company.
So this idea has, or could achieve all of the above, here are my thoughts on how:
Plan it well in advance eg 2016 to align with the anniversary.
Few key sponsors, BMW US and a few other smaller markets eg UK and Germany spring to mind as first to offer the sponsor opportunity. Perhaps a transport sponsor would also help to move cars interstate and transatlantic.
Make this a World Record Attempt, perhaps Guinness. This is a commercial company so must be paid for, as well as reach certain criteria eg 30% of the US Road legal Coupes involved. I expect that the cost would be several thousand dollars.
Select a suitable charity, that way all organizers and fund raisers can be pushy and also people won't be embarrassed to get involved and support. Also the media are happy to support it.
Select a core team to manage, organize and make decisions.
If there is a collective view that we want to make this big, and also make it a large fund raising event for a charity then I am willing to give what experience I have and explain in more detail how we went about the last one. but I can't be full time on it - it will take heaps of planning . If there is a collective view to keep it informal, with many tagging along then that is also great, and I will still plan to come along in some form.
Any views or opinions?
C
The good news is that we have a good amount of time for planning.
It would be great if InterCity or another excellent car transporter would discount or sponsor the event by transporting the east coast cars back home.
Do you think BMW NA or AG would sponsor ?
Perhaps all the E9 specialty shops might kick in; CoupeKing, The Werke Shop, Vintage Sports, Kormann, etc...
Route idea: I 90 to I 80. A pretty straight shot from Boston to San Francisco
It would be great if InterCity or another excellent car transporter would discount or sponsor the event by transporting the east coast cars back home.
Do you think BMW NA or AG would sponsor ?
Perhaps all the E9 specialty shops might kick in; CoupeKing, The Werke Shop, Vintage Sports, Kormann, etc...
Route idea: I 90 to I 80. A pretty straight shot from Boston to San Francisco
Last edited:
TodB
Well-Known Member
Given that will be pebble beach time, I doubt there will be any shipping deals to be had from the haulers unless we rent the whole truck and even that's a maybe. Not sure why the resto shops would help sponsor our trucks either but its worth a shot I guess.
Logistically, I think I would rather ship my car out (and drive back) to guarantee I get there on time and enjoy the full west coast driving experience rather than break down on the way and have to cut the driving short in order to get to Pebble on time. This is my one chance to drive my car out there so I want to do it right. My car came from Chico so it would be fun to drop in on the prior owner.
And I'm still trying to get psyched about driving a 45 year old car 3K miles cross country with no AC, a 3.45 diff and a modified exhaust (louder than stock) all while breathing in fumes from Duane's car.:mrgreen: I'll get there.
Logistically, I think I would rather ship my car out (and drive back) to guarantee I get there on time and enjoy the full west coast driving experience rather than break down on the way and have to cut the driving short in order to get to Pebble on time. This is my one chance to drive my car out there so I want to do it right. My car came from Chico so it would be fun to drop in on the prior owner.
And I'm still trying to get psyched about driving a 45 year old car 3K miles cross country with no AC, a 3.45 diff and a modified exhaust (louder than stock) all while breathing in fumes from Duane's car.:mrgreen: I'll get there.
Last edited:
OK, my spleen is very skeptical of planning anything beyond this week-end. It is even more skeptical of the charity and sponsor model. I take that back I can think of a few sponsors with agendas.
A tar sands oil producer would love to showcase vintage cars along with the latest oil extraction technology, Saudi Aramco could sponsor the fuel for the entire armada of cars as long as no woman drives one, Elon Musk could sponsor and drive a Tesla at 90MPG equivalent next to our dinosaurs wearing a smirk, and Alibaba could sponsor it just because we are in the US and they would love to have a US image to brand. BMW will not touch it, they may send some roundel stickers at most to pass around. Susanne Hanna Ursula Quandt would only sponsor it if we disguise it as CDU party event or somehow send compromising pictures of her with a blackmail note.
Let's be blunt BMW makes more than 1.5M cars a year, and here in California because cars don't rust a handful of weirdos continue to live in automotive formol and want to join the corporate celebrations. They want us just as much as my son wants me in his college dorms.
Apologies but that is how I feel today. My house is open when the armada arrives in Cupertino, like we say in Spanish "mi driveway es su driveway". I may even join.
A tar sands oil producer would love to showcase vintage cars along with the latest oil extraction technology, Saudi Aramco could sponsor the fuel for the entire armada of cars as long as no woman drives one, Elon Musk could sponsor and drive a Tesla at 90MPG equivalent next to our dinosaurs wearing a smirk, and Alibaba could sponsor it just because we are in the US and they would love to have a US image to brand. BMW will not touch it, they may send some roundel stickers at most to pass around. Susanne Hanna Ursula Quandt would only sponsor it if we disguise it as CDU party event or somehow send compromising pictures of her with a blackmail note.
Let's be blunt BMW makes more than 1.5M cars a year, and here in California because cars don't rust a handful of weirdos continue to live in automotive formol and want to join the corporate celebrations. They want us just as much as my son wants me in his college dorms.
Apologies but that is how I feel today. My house is open when the armada arrives in Cupertino, like we say in Spanish "mi driveway es su driveway". I may even join.
Last edited:
Just a little incite into long distance traveling.
I rebuilt the motor in my coupe in the Spring.
Barely got it done in time to drive to Ofest from Atlanta, GA to Beaver Creek CO.
Thought this would be a great break-in
In case you didn't know Ofest is the BMW Car Club of American national meet held once a year in different locations in the USA.
I may be a little crazy but actually it turned out pretty spectacular.
We had time to not have to rush and a little time for some problems if it wasn't major. Didn't have any major drama.
Radio would cut off after running for a couple hours. Over heating.
Weather was not too hot so lots of window down driving. Car is noisy but not exhaust noisy. Still have stock muffler.
AC worked but I knew the temp control switch was suspect so when we did run the AC it would be cold for 1-2 hours and would then freeze up the evaporator and we would turn off or stop and sight see till it thawed out.
Had a Wide Band AFR gauge down next to emergency brake handle (not installed) so I could keep an eye on my triple Weber 45's. Cruised at 75-90 in the 12-13.5 range. About right for carb engine.
Made it to Colorado Springs by 9PM Friday night. 2.5 days for 1400 miles.
Didn't feel stressed.
Car was amazing on the highway. I had rebuilt the front end and had an alignment and it steered and tracked so easily. Good tires on 16 inch rims. My seat are the upgrade Schnell seats so this made a huge difference as I expected to start having back problems. I'm 65. We stopped every few hours and had some fun in some towns like Paducah KY and Salina KS.
We then drove from Colorado Springs over 2 12000ft passes into Breckinridge and then I70 to Beaver Creek. Got to I70 and the brake pedal was on the floor. Had brakes just not a lot of pedal. Maybe the altitude had something to do with that. Later bleed them and all back to normal.
The only other issue was after doing the Autocross I thought my guibo had gone out. Had to have towed to a shop in Vail about 15 miles away and they were very accommodating and found that one side of the mount that goes under the transmission had come loose and with that fixed all was good back to Atlanta. I did have an extra temp switch for the AC since I knew it was not working correctly and changed that out myself and had AC all the way home. Kept me very comfortable. BTW my heater hoses were disconnected so no problem with extra heat. I had also lined my trans tunnel and floor in front of passenger with heat shield foil so that helped block some engine heat.
My car needs better rubber around doors and windows so that would help as well.
So what I am saying is a trip I thought I might be a little foolish to try, was a dream. Great fun and great car on the highway. Try it you'll like it.
Let's do this trip to CA in 2016. I think some southern guys would like to meet up in St Louis or something like that?
Gary
I rebuilt the motor in my coupe in the Spring.
Barely got it done in time to drive to Ofest from Atlanta, GA to Beaver Creek CO.
Thought this would be a great break-in
In case you didn't know Ofest is the BMW Car Club of American national meet held once a year in different locations in the USA.
I may be a little crazy but actually it turned out pretty spectacular.
We had time to not have to rush and a little time for some problems if it wasn't major. Didn't have any major drama.
Radio would cut off after running for a couple hours. Over heating.
Weather was not too hot so lots of window down driving. Car is noisy but not exhaust noisy. Still have stock muffler.
AC worked but I knew the temp control switch was suspect so when we did run the AC it would be cold for 1-2 hours and would then freeze up the evaporator and we would turn off or stop and sight see till it thawed out.
Had a Wide Band AFR gauge down next to emergency brake handle (not installed) so I could keep an eye on my triple Weber 45's. Cruised at 75-90 in the 12-13.5 range. About right for carb engine.
Made it to Colorado Springs by 9PM Friday night. 2.5 days for 1400 miles.
Didn't feel stressed.
Car was amazing on the highway. I had rebuilt the front end and had an alignment and it steered and tracked so easily. Good tires on 16 inch rims. My seat are the upgrade Schnell seats so this made a huge difference as I expected to start having back problems. I'm 65. We stopped every few hours and had some fun in some towns like Paducah KY and Salina KS.
We then drove from Colorado Springs over 2 12000ft passes into Breckinridge and then I70 to Beaver Creek. Got to I70 and the brake pedal was on the floor. Had brakes just not a lot of pedal. Maybe the altitude had something to do with that. Later bleed them and all back to normal.
The only other issue was after doing the Autocross I thought my guibo had gone out. Had to have towed to a shop in Vail about 15 miles away and they were very accommodating and found that one side of the mount that goes under the transmission had come loose and with that fixed all was good back to Atlanta. I did have an extra temp switch for the AC since I knew it was not working correctly and changed that out myself and had AC all the way home. Kept me very comfortable. BTW my heater hoses were disconnected so no problem with extra heat. I had also lined my trans tunnel and floor in front of passenger with heat shield foil so that helped block some engine heat.
My car needs better rubber around doors and windows so that would help as well.
So what I am saying is a trip I thought I might be a little foolish to try, was a dream. Great fun and great car on the highway. Try it you'll like it.
Let's do this trip to CA in 2016. I think some southern guys would like to meet up in St Louis or something like that?
Gary
Great idea, I'll drink to that (and am). If the East Coast guys could drop down to St. Louis on their way out west then us southern guys can drive north and meet up. The Texas guys could hop on in Kansas. Then drive through Kansas, Colorado, up to Wyoming from Denver then down through Utah, Nevada and into San Fran area. Or whichever route is most scenic. Would be epic.
Last edited:
TodB
Well-Known Member
Gary, any issues with the carbs being set at one altitude at home and then running at a much higher level in CO?
rb1971
Well-Known Member
If this is the route, I'll do my best to meet in either STL or Denver. I've love to do the run through Wyoming, that would be gorgeous.
Also I've got a place in Napa that a few folks could crash in.
-John
Tod,
You know I read up on that and Lonny (bimmerlon) also checked on it because he was doing the Vintage and Classic drive the week before Ofest in his 2002.
Everyone said we would make it and not have to change any jetting unless we planned to stay there.
My coupe with a 3.5 and 10.5:1 pistons and cam did ok as long as I kept the rpm's about 3-3500. Let it get below that and you pretty much stopped. That was climbing the 12000 ft stuff.
Lonny and others drove up Pikes Peak which is 14000. He made it but just barely he said.
They just run rich and you can smell it.
Gary
TodB
Well-Known Member
Thanks Gary. Kinda what I figured.
So if you were running 12-13.5 AFR on the trip, how much did it drop at highest altitude?
TodB
Well-Known Member
And isn't that a tad rich for cruising speed or do carbed engines run richer?
When I tuned my modded, injected M30 in my E28, I used 12.5 AFR for WOT and 14.7ish for cruise.
And how was the mileage?
Sorry to hijack the thread. We can take this discussion offline if necessary.
Carb engines run richer than fuel injected. Remember the 14.7 Stoich you see is what the O2 sensor in a fuel injected engine is trying to get by telling the computer how much fuel and timing to use. Because the delivery is more efficient it can run at 14.7 or so.
These (12-13.5) are the numbers you can find in write ups about Webers and also what Paul Burke that I got my pistons and cam from, told me to use.
So at 12000 ft it was in the 11's. Much more than that and it probably wouldn't run. That's why I had to keep the rpm's up so it had enough air through the carbs to mix the fuel. Air pressure is less as well.
Mileage was from a low of 20 to high of 23-24.
Interstate speeds were 70-90. So with a 5 speed rpm was 3300-3800.
I am sure with the tuning I have done since that I can get better mileage now. But with the performance additions I never expect much over 24 or so.
Gary
iconoclast6
Well-Known Member
Trans-continental E9 road trip
Glad to see this is picking up steam since Saratoga and Limerock.
Turns out the word has also spread beyond e9 folks. I've had several folks inquire about
details.
Will be interesting to see how the route can be developed to include scenic stops, and hotels ala Targa California. My significant other is a foodie and has offered input once things move along, infofar as restaurants.
A follow up to Tod's ? on carbs. My Agave was running perfectly after its periodic tune-up (38-38 Webers) with Lawrence here, before Targa, and ran fine during the rally. My mileage has never been great with the 38-38's. Car came back late from the west coast, and I ran it up to Saratoga just 2 two days later. The car ran like crap on the way to Saratoga, (alternator was dying as well), and the carbs needed sorting.
So from my experience, a carb adjustment could be necessary once back east.
Glad to see this is picking up steam since Saratoga and Limerock.
Turns out the word has also spread beyond e9 folks. I've had several folks inquire about
details.
Will be interesting to see how the route can be developed to include scenic stops, and hotels ala Targa California. My significant other is a foodie and has offered input once things move along, infofar as restaurants.
A follow up to Tod's ? on carbs. My Agave was running perfectly after its periodic tune-up (38-38 Webers) with Lawrence here, before Targa, and ran fine during the rally. My mileage has never been great with the 38-38's. Car came back late from the west coast, and I ran it up to Saratoga just 2 two days later. The car ran like crap on the way to Saratoga, (alternator was dying as well), and the carbs needed sorting.
So from my experience, a carb adjustment could be necessary once back east.
Last edited:
Chuck, you might want to check your fuel filter? Long trips and truck transport can really shake up a gas tank and put dirt in those carbs.
Really shouldn't run any different unless something on the carbs broke or moved.
Sorry to hijack also but it's something to consider for us carb guys. I've spent a lot of time and coin on jetting and I finally have it at 13 idle, 12.5 WOT, and 14 at cruise. It's a compromise between idle/acceleration/cruise as they all play off each other. There are a few things that can be done in the field with little effort to lean up the engine when hitting altitude besides swapping out main jet stack components:
1. Remove air filters
2. Screw in idle mixture screws a little (these screws can affect the progression mixture not just idle)
3. Swap in smaller accel pump jets (say from .40 to .30) as these contribute fuel at higher throttle openings, not just when hitting the gas pedal.
1. Remove air filters
2. Screw in idle mixture screws a little (these screws can affect the progression mixture not just idle)
3. Swap in smaller accel pump jets (say from .40 to .30) as these contribute fuel at higher throttle openings, not just when hitting the gas pedal.
TodB
Well-Known Member
Good info, Steve, thanks for sharing.
Continusing to hijack the thread...
I've got dual 38s on 3.3L with a Schrick 284. The question for me is if the OEM filter housing is too restrictive or would it be better to go to some sort of top mount air filter set up.
Continusing to hijack the thread...
I've got dual 38s on 3.3L with a Schrick 284. The question for me is if the OEM filter housing is too restrictive or would it be better to go to some sort of top mount air filter set up.
Sorry I am not famiiar with the intracasies of down drafts, I was referring to side drafts. Still, a less restrictive filter could lean out the AFR by providing less resistance in the emulsion tube.