I used a catch can for a while but it was dry so I just have it dangling just below the subframe and I see no drips on the garage floor or on the hose. Not sure if any vacuum is created with this setup but maybe the vapors are drawn out at speed.
Triple Weber Rebuild
- Thread starter Tom P
- Start date
The locking over the top condition I experienced was with Weber downdraft 32 DGAV's, not side drafts so you are ok there.
Does your linkage not provide a notch that hits the carb body when butterflies are open to WOT (horizontal)? Or the main throttle linkage arm should hit the carb back at WOT. So you won't be stressing the butterflies as the stop should take care of that. Or something like htis might fit on the front left or right rear carb throttle shaft:
Here is my bell crank, you'll see I have the "E" hole unused at the bottom left, I believe that is for the injected engine. I would adjust linkage so your pedal comes all the way up when foot off, then hits bottom on the carb stops, not the floor. I think mine does this but will check. Pics:
Does your linkage not provide a notch that hits the carb body when butterflies are open to WOT (horizontal)? Or the main throttle linkage arm should hit the carb back at WOT. So you won't be stressing the butterflies as the stop should take care of that. Or something like htis might fit on the front left or right rear carb throttle shaft:
Here is my bell crank, you'll see I have the "E" hole unused at the bottom left, I believe that is for the injected engine. I would adjust linkage so your pedal comes all the way up when foot off, then hits bottom on the carb stops, not the floor. I think mine does this but will check. Pics:
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COUPE9
Member
Fancy graphics to acquire needed guidance
Okay, attached (and apparently in two subsequent posts since the forum is only allowing me to upload one photo at a time) is a marked up image of my E9 engine bay. Looking for guidance on two things; how to re-connect all of the vacuum lines (I saw a manifold in someone else's bay, anyone got any info on that?), and the fuel line (do I need an inline pump, pressure regulator, if so, how to hook it up)?... ...pictures and/or descriptions is MUCH appreciated. Thanks (in advance)!!
Okay, attached (and apparently in two subsequent posts since the forum is only allowing me to upload one photo at a time) is a marked up image of my E9 engine bay. Looking for guidance on two things; how to re-connect all of the vacuum lines (I saw a manifold in someone else's bay, anyone got any info on that?), and the fuel line (do I need an inline pump, pressure regulator, if so, how to hook it up)?... ...pictures and/or descriptions is MUCH appreciated. Thanks (in advance)!!
Attachments
COUPE9
Member
COUPE9
Member
It would be helpful if you could post these on a web hosting site like the other pics so they can be rendered larger, it's difficult to see the details
COUPE9
Member
Better. Some notes:
Pic 1:
Eliminate the vacuum canister and all lines, cap at trunk vapor tank or vent out the trunk floor.
Vacuum hose from booster goes to the port on manifold cylinder #4 (pic 3)
The solution for the block plug is IIRC just a M8 x 1.25 bolt say 12mm long or so, use thread sealer on it. If not M8 then M10.
Your Webers do not have vacuum ports so just cap off the advance and retard ports on the distributor. Set your timing to 35 degrees all in at 3200 rpm. This can be adjusted later.
Pic 2:
Forget about the relay and the Zenith wiring, not needed anymore.
Pic 3:
You are missing the 2 top cover screws, available at Pierce Manifolds.
What kind of fuel pump is that? Webers need lots of volume and low pressure (around 2.5-3lbs), that looks like a high pressure low volume pump so details please. You'll likely need a fuel pressure regulator as well. See my thread about the fuel pump I use (Carter 4070). The order should be gas tank, fuel filter, fuel pump, pressure regulator, carbs.
I would reverse the fuel inlets on carbs 1 and 3 so you can run the fuel line up from the firewall to carb #3 then to #2 then end on #1.
Eliminate the soft mount gaskets between the carbs and manifold, they are not needed and will leak eventually, replace with the "base gaskets" from Pierce.
Your crossbar linkage will be more challenging to sync, consider the inter-couple style as seen on Ohmess and mine. Could be done later also.
Invest in rubber top cover gaskets, they go a long way to prevent fuel smells and leaks, available at Pierce.
What air filters will you be using?
Pic 1:
Eliminate the vacuum canister and all lines, cap at trunk vapor tank or vent out the trunk floor.
Vacuum hose from booster goes to the port on manifold cylinder #4 (pic 3)
The solution for the block plug is IIRC just a M8 x 1.25 bolt say 12mm long or so, use thread sealer on it. If not M8 then M10.
Your Webers do not have vacuum ports so just cap off the advance and retard ports on the distributor. Set your timing to 35 degrees all in at 3200 rpm. This can be adjusted later.
Pic 2:
Forget about the relay and the Zenith wiring, not needed anymore.
Pic 3:
You are missing the 2 top cover screws, available at Pierce Manifolds.
What kind of fuel pump is that? Webers need lots of volume and low pressure (around 2.5-3lbs), that looks like a high pressure low volume pump so details please. You'll likely need a fuel pressure regulator as well. See my thread about the fuel pump I use (Carter 4070). The order should be gas tank, fuel filter, fuel pump, pressure regulator, carbs.
I would reverse the fuel inlets on carbs 1 and 3 so you can run the fuel line up from the firewall to carb #3 then to #2 then end on #1.
Eliminate the soft mount gaskets between the carbs and manifold, they are not needed and will leak eventually, replace with the "base gaskets" from Pierce.
Your crossbar linkage will be more challenging to sync, consider the inter-couple style as seen on Ohmess and mine. Could be done later also.
Invest in rubber top cover gaskets, they go a long way to prevent fuel smells and leaks, available at Pierce.
What air filters will you be using?
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+1
on ditching the square Facet pump. And regulator. Noisy as hell too. Good for a primer only maybe, mounted by the spare tire. That pump has left many scratching their heads when tuning.
The Carter 4070 is high volume , low pressure. No regulator required for multiple carbs.
I suggest the FI fuel filter. BMW part. Mounted on the firewall or near the booster.
on ditching the square Facet pump. And regulator. Noisy as hell too. Good for a primer only maybe, mounted by the spare tire. That pump has left many scratching their heads when tuning.
The Carter 4070 is high volume , low pressure. No regulator required for multiple carbs.
I suggest the FI fuel filter. BMW part. Mounted on the firewall or near the booster.
Steve -- you have the pedal stop on your Z shaped linkage that I am thinking about installing. I will check the linkage on the carbs to see about the stop you reference.
Coupe9 -- I have this fuel pump mounted above my rear subframe
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/99009.131.htm
and a Bosch filter (similar to this one) mounted near the fuel tank:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/9101.htm
Coupe9 -- I have this fuel pump mounted above my rear subframe
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/99009.131.htm
and a Bosch filter (similar to this one) mounted near the fuel tank:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/9101.htm
COUPE9
Member
Man, you guys rock... ...and thanks for helping me with my (currently) embarrassing engine bay.
Alright, a couple more questions...
1) Fuel pump - sounds like I'm acquiring a Carter 4070. I then place female spade receivers on the ends, and plug it into where the old relay mess plugged into? Or where does it get it's power? Pictures of an installed one would be super helpful.
2) Fuel pressure regulator - sounds like there are mixed responses on this. I think I'll put one inline, and see how it works. If I can truly remove it, then awesome, I will. That said, what pressure regular (brand & part #) should I acquire?
3) Fuel filter - thanks for the options. I just put the larger canister BMW filter on my 635csi (which was mounted in the passenger rear wheel well).
4) Crossbar linkage. I couldn't agree more Stevehose & Ohmess. Mine looks (and operates) a little hokey (for my liking). What one do you have (part #'s), and does it mount right up to the Korman manifold? And does it come with a ball to snap the cars' original throttle linkage up to?
I bought a new starter (since it's right there AND ACCESSIBLE), so that's going in. Turns out that my points have gouge in them, so I'm going to replace those (and the condenser), so that when I adjust the timing 35-degrees, it's accurate).
Alright, I look forward to responses to the above, and I will continue to post pictures of the install as I go. I've got a month to get this all squared away and running again, so that's my deadline.
Alright, a couple more questions...
1) Fuel pump - sounds like I'm acquiring a Carter 4070. I then place female spade receivers on the ends, and plug it into where the old relay mess plugged into? Or where does it get it's power? Pictures of an installed one would be super helpful.
2) Fuel pressure regulator - sounds like there are mixed responses on this. I think I'll put one inline, and see how it works. If I can truly remove it, then awesome, I will. That said, what pressure regular (brand & part #) should I acquire?
3) Fuel filter - thanks for the options. I just put the larger canister BMW filter on my 635csi (which was mounted in the passenger rear wheel well).
4) Crossbar linkage. I couldn't agree more Stevehose & Ohmess. Mine looks (and operates) a little hokey (for my liking). What one do you have (part #'s), and does it mount right up to the Korman manifold? And does it come with a ball to snap the cars' original throttle linkage up to?
I bought a new starter (since it's right there AND ACCESSIBLE), so that's going in. Turns out that my points have gouge in them, so I'm going to replace those (and the condenser), so that when I adjust the timing 35-degrees, it's accurate).
Alright, I look forward to responses to the above, and I will continue to post pictures of the install as I go. I've got a month to get this all squared away and running again, so that's my deadline.
See below
Man, you guys rock... ...and thanks for helping me with my (currently) embarrassing engine bay.
Alright, a couple more questions...
1) Fuel pump - sounds like I'm acquiring a Carter 4070. I then place female spade receivers on the ends, and plug it into where the old relay mess plugged into? Or where does it get it's power? Pictures of an installed one would be super helpful.
Read my link here about the Carter pump and the fuel pump controller among other install issues.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11517
2) Fuel pressure regulator - sounds like there are mixed responses on this. I think I'll put one inline, and see how it works. If I can truly remove it, then awesome, I will. That said, what pressure regular (brand & part #) should I acquire?
Your existing one is fine, it's a Holley, right? Just check the model number, you want the 0-4 psi model 12-804. You'll need a fuel pressure gauge (smaller gauge is better mine is 0-8lbs or something). Hook that up temporarily between the front 2 carbs then remove when set (or leave it but I prefer it out of there). I have both the filter and the regulator hidden in the spare tire well:
I have the line from the tank going to the filter then down to the pump then back to the regulator then up to the carbs through the existing metal pipe on the tank side. You want the filter in front of the pump to prevent debris from chewing up the pump.
3) Fuel filter - thanks for the options. I just put the larger canister BMW filter on my 635csi (which was mounted in the passenger rear wheel well).
I would put this between the tank and pump as noted above
4) Crossbar linkage. I couldn't agree more Stevehose & Ohmess. Mine looks (and operates) a little hokey (for my liking). What one do you have (part #'s), and does it mount right up to the Korman manifold? And does it come with a ball to snap the cars' original throttle linkage up to?
Ohmess can help here, he would have similar linkage as I have different manifold and carbs, all available at Pierce.
I bought a new starter (since it's right there AND ACCESSIBLE), so that's going in. Turns out that my points have gouge in them, so I'm going to replace those (and the condenser), so that when I adjust the timing 35-degrees, it's accurate).
Consider the 123ignition distributor, ideal for Webers and no more points and condensor. Makes a big difference.
Alright, I look forward to responses to the above, and I will continue to post pictures of the install as I go. I've got a month to get this all squared away and running again, so that's my deadline.
You have a lot of work to do! Where did you get the carbs, and what size idle and main jet components do they have?
COUPE9
Member
Stevehose,
I forgot to answer one of your questions... ...I haven't yet ordered any filters, as I wanted to see what kind of clearance I have (due to the Korman manifold) when installed (around the brake booster). Any recommendations?
I was the lucky winner of VSR's advertised part (on Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/groups/bmwe9/permalink/879106178901255/
That said, I'm not sure of the idle & main jet components. I could definitely reach back out, as they are stellar folks.
Yes, the fuel pressure regulator is a Holley, but doesn't say 12-804 on it anywhere... ...the only numbers I see are "134 8-2"... ...but it looks identical to the one in your photo.
Regarding the 123ignition distributor, I'll probably "hold" on that purchase (for now), since it comes to about $600.00 for stuff. Or am I shooting myself in the foot by messing with the existing points? If it eliminates hassle, then I'll pull the trigger on the purchase.
I forgot to answer one of your questions... ...I haven't yet ordered any filters, as I wanted to see what kind of clearance I have (due to the Korman manifold) when installed (around the brake booster). Any recommendations?
I was the lucky winner of VSR's advertised part (on Facebook): https://www.facebook.com/groups/bmwe9/permalink/879106178901255/
That said, I'm not sure of the idle & main jet components. I could definitely reach back out, as they are stellar folks.
Yes, the fuel pressure regulator is a Holley, but doesn't say 12-804 on it anywhere... ...the only numbers I see are "134 8-2"... ...but it looks identical to the one in your photo.
Regarding the 123ignition distributor, I'll probably "hold" on that purchase (for now), since it comes to about $600.00 for stuff. Or am I shooting myself in the foot by messing with the existing points? If it eliminates hassle, then I'll pull the trigger on the purchase.
Steve and I both have linkage levers on the ends of our throttle shafts that link the carbs together. I think Pierce Manifolds refers to as a "sync-lync" setup on our carbs. You can see all of this stuff in my pictures above.
A linkage lever like this one is mounted to the furthest rearward portion of it throttle shaft on Carb 1.
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45034.042.htm
This lever operates Carb 1. In addition, the bent tab sticking up on this lever slides into this lever, which is mounted on the front end of the throttle shaft on Carb 2 and is used to operate Carb 2:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45048.005.htm
On the other end of the Carb 2 throttle shaft, this piece is installed to provide a tab similar to the tab on the rear of Carb 1.
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/99901.633.htm
And this tab slots into a second throttle lever mounted on the front of the Carb 3 throttle shaft, linking Carb 3 to Carb 2:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45048.005.htm
I am using the stock bell crank along with the throttle rod connecting the arm on the end of the pedal assemble to the bell crank. I purchased this throttle rod to connect the bell crank to the Carb 1 linkage lever:
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=75500.225
As noted above, I am missing the stop on the bell crank. Steve's setup has this, and I think I need it.
A linkage lever like this one is mounted to the furthest rearward portion of it throttle shaft on Carb 1.
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45034.042.htm
This lever operates Carb 1. In addition, the bent tab sticking up on this lever slides into this lever, which is mounted on the front end of the throttle shaft on Carb 2 and is used to operate Carb 2:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45048.005.htm
On the other end of the Carb 2 throttle shaft, this piece is installed to provide a tab similar to the tab on the rear of Carb 1.
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/99901.633.htm
And this tab slots into a second throttle lever mounted on the front of the Carb 3 throttle shaft, linking Carb 3 to Carb 2:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/45048.005.htm
I am using the stock bell crank along with the throttle rod connecting the arm on the end of the pedal assemble to the bell crank. I purchased this throttle rod to connect the bell crank to the Carb 1 linkage lever:
https://www.piercemanifolds.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=75500.225
As noted above, I am missing the stop on the bell crank. Steve's setup has this, and I think I need it.
I have angled foam filters from here:
http://www.spruellmotorsport.com/air-filter-dcoe-weber-short-angle-p-2366.html
They also offer a longer foam version so I got those but they don't advertise them so inquire if interested.
If you bought from Mario then you'll have a good start. Ideally to tune them you'll get better results with an air fuel gauge but that's another expense but it's the only real way to know if you're running rich or lean at various parts of throttle and driving conditions.
123 distributor can wait until you get the carbs dialed in but the advantage of it is that the advance curve can be programmed to put advance in earlier than stock distributor (which triples like) and is infinitely tweakable.
http://www.spruellmotorsport.com/air-filter-dcoe-weber-short-angle-p-2366.html
They also offer a longer foam version so I got those but they don't advertise them so inquire if interested.
If you bought from Mario then you'll have a good start. Ideally to tune them you'll get better results with an air fuel gauge but that's another expense but it's the only real way to know if you're running rich or lean at various parts of throttle and driving conditions.
123 distributor can wait until you get the carbs dialed in but the advantage of it is that the advance curve can be programmed to put advance in earlier than stock distributor (which triples like) and is infinitely tweakable.
Brandon -- My carbs have 50F8 idle jets and 1.20 main jets.
To be clear, the seller of my carbs - the late Steve Bingham - had his car running but was unhappy with the way it ran. I don't have any further information on specifically what his concerns may have been.
I have not run the car yet (and my starter died on me when I first tried to fire it up).
To be clear, the seller of my carbs - the late Steve Bingham - had his car running but was unhappy with the way it ran. I don't have any further information on specifically what his concerns may have been.
I have not run the car yet (and my starter died on me when I first tried to fire it up).
That seems lean both on the idle and main jets. Maybe he was dissatified because of this, typically the M30's like 55 idles and 125-130 mains but we'll see soon enough when you fire it up.
COUPE9
Member
Roadblock
Alright, so I'm at a point where I decided to 'dry fit' the parts, and wouldn't you know it, we've got problems.
See the attached pictures.
This may be covered elsewhere, but I'm not seeing it... ...I have a Korman manifold & carb interference issue with the T-stat housing... ...looking at the other pictures, it "appears" that I need to update my original T-stat housing with that from an E24. Looking at my 1988 E24, I "think" that housing would work, but want to hear your thoughts.
The heater core hose... ...it looks like I have a "solution", but not one I like. I have it looping down to the tee, and it doesn't seem to interfere with the carb horns, but it's just a little weird. (See fuel line photo)
The fuel line... ...per your suggestion, I reversed the fuel direction to go from back to front, and during the dry fit (see photo), the fuel tee ramps into the firewall.
Alright, more parts arrived today, so I'm busy busy busy, but (as usual), I look forward to (and appreciate) your comments/solutions.
Thanks!
Alright, so I'm at a point where I decided to 'dry fit' the parts, and wouldn't you know it, we've got problems.
See the attached pictures.
This may be covered elsewhere, but I'm not seeing it... ...I have a Korman manifold & carb interference issue with the T-stat housing... ...looking at the other pictures, it "appears" that I need to update my original T-stat housing with that from an E24. Looking at my 1988 E24, I "think" that housing would work, but want to hear your thoughts.
The heater core hose... ...it looks like I have a "solution", but not one I like. I have it looping down to the tee, and it doesn't seem to interfere with the carb horns, but it's just a little weird. (See fuel line photo)
The fuel line... ...per your suggestion, I reversed the fuel direction to go from back to front, and during the dry fit (see photo), the fuel tee ramps into the firewall.
Alright, more parts arrived today, so I'm busy busy busy, but (as usual), I look forward to (and appreciate) your comments/solutions.
Thanks!
Attachments
Korman sells a special T-Stat Housing that mitigates the clearance issue. From their website:
Triple Sidedraft Modified Thermostat Housing
The stock thermostat housing does not have sufficient clearance once the Weber carbs are installed. We offer this modified housing which replaces the original unit without any clearance problems.
P/N 1153K278187
Triple Sidedraft Modified Thermostat Housing
The stock thermostat housing does not have sufficient clearance once the Weber carbs are installed. We offer this modified housing which replaces the original unit without any clearance problems.
P/N 1153K278187