1974 3.0 CS Electric

Oh right. Now I remember the idea :)

S2000 has it in front of axle so when flipping it and putting behind behind the axle it’s normal direction again.

Let’s see if we can do it. At least they did it with “CSE” build with VW golf rack.
 
mane said:
Let’s see if we can do it. At least they did it with “CSE” build with VW golf rack.
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Hi Mane, yes, the VW Golf MK3 rack works great, but it's actually not flipped. Since VW steers from behind like the E9 it was a pretty simple solution. I really wanted to use a BMW rack, but those are all front steer. I did see the guy in Australia convert his E9 to front steer. I am very jealous of his setup, but beyond my skill level.

Keeping rear-steer also gets your linkage out of the way of your batteries sooner. To extent the to the front of your subframe means losing more precious space where you want to put those modules.

BUT I am not the expert- you need to run down your idea first. I tried 3 different racks before I found the one that worked perfectly for me. You should have the same amount of fun that I did!
 
JetDexter said:
Hi Mane, yes, the VW Golf MK3 rack works great, but it's actually not flipped.
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I was referring to the sentiment that @Belgiumbarry said, that it's not possible to have R&P without moving firewall.

After we have a roof, we'll start the fight with the rack. I'll keep you posted on the progress.
 
and it's not only the angle between R&P and steering column... also i'm afraid the arms on the struts are to long for a R&P use… so one will have to modify that also ...i think.
Would love to see some pics of the VW Golf R&P setup …. @JetDexter
 
Sorry mane I miss understood how you were comparing the VW rack.

Yes, Barry it’s true, the arms do need to be modified to be shorter. I have created brackets (relocating the connection point) for this for testing, but actually this week or next we are shortening the arm itself. Where the tie rod needs to connect is actually just before the main bend in the arm. The material is the same width as the factory end. With care to properly cut it, machine it flat, drill then taper without heating it up to disrupt the molecular structure, this should work well.

Otherwise of course we could just machine some new shorter arms. But the modification should be simple.
 
FYI, FIVA (never heard of them prior to this) Has just issued their statement on EV conversions...
“Conversion of historic vehicles from their original internal-combustion engines to electric power doesn’t comply with the FIVA definition of a historic vehicle, nor does it support the goal of preserving historic vehicles and their related culture. In FIVA’s view, vehicles so converted cease to be historic vehicles, unless they are subject only to ‘in period’ changes.”
Click to expand...
 
jefflit said:
FYI, FIVA (never heard of them prior to this) Has just issued their statement on EV conversions...
Click to expand...
It helps to read that whole article.
Interestingly, it notes, as we have many times on this forum, the differences between (many) Europeans and (many) Americans view on the subject. This FIVA group is apparently based in Italy. The article comes from Hagertys (US based vintage car insurance company) and ends with:
“Swapping a modern electric drivetrain into a vintage car might disqualify it from certain events, but does that really mean it’s no longer of historic value? Isn’t the emerging trend of battery-electric conversion a form of modern engineering culture and a way to enjoy vintage cars from a fresh perspective? These are all legitimate questions, but when it comes to pure historic certification we know what the FIVA has to say about it.”
 
Cool project and I commend your skills! It's your car so do what you want. People railed at Singer for chopping up 964s by the dozen... Until they saw the finished product..
 
It's been a while. Summer came and went and nothing happened to the car meanwhile. But now the car is back at the shop, and guys removed the trunk floor, added an additional frame and mounts to that for the motor. We switched the Tesla open differential for Quaife LSD and attached the motor.

It fits perfectly! We're going to add a floor on top of that, and weld it to the inner wheels arch covers. So it will be more rigid.

IMG_4661.jpeg


Next thing is to upgrade the suspension. Ordered rubber bushings and been looking for air suspension. Plan was that we remove the front sway bar and add active leveling system to air suspension. This also helps to reduce weight and make even more space in front for the batteries.
 
Plan with the S2000 steering rack did not work. It's just way too wide for the car. So we went with Citroen C3 rack, as the dimensions fit nicely. It's an electric rack too, and quite compact. Not as compact as the S2000 one, but decent still. It's already installed, just waiting for an ECU to arrive, so that we can test how it works in limp-mode, as it does not receive any can messages related to speed or engine rpm - yet. This is something that might be a problem later on, if I can't find the correct can messages to send to it. I've heard that these ECUs are coded to match the car vin. So I need to crack that do the can messages change according to vin also. I have the vin of donor car, so I guess just some research, trial and error is needed.

1575711009517.png



New trunk floor:

1575712013905.png


Air Suspension is also now installed. Got a BC Racing coiloverkit for E9 and that has been modified to fit the bags instead of springs. Airlift 3H (with active leveling) is installed, and car sits very nice.

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Multiple additional rust spots did appear while working with suspension. Rear inner wheel arch had many plates from previous fixes. Front wheel arch had rust plus the support plate was a goner. New support was fabricated. Also metal near upper strut support was fixed.. Multiple holes filled etc.

1575711690884.png


Replica alpina 16" rims have now rubber. 225 read, and 205 in front. But the front appeared to be too wide and we need to change that to 185. So that the car can be driven bit lower than standard, and still not rub.

That's all for now.
 
Been following this closely on insta, build looks like its coming along well.

What bags did you use for the rear?
 
nosmonkey said:
Been following this closely on insta, build looks like its coming along well.

What bags did you use for the rear?
Click to expand...

It took a while before got to a speed :)

bags are:
Front: OCD single bellow BC BR
Rear: OCD single bellow universal
 
It's been a while since last update. Holidays and some flu has slowed the progress a bit, but getting back to a full swing now. Here's something that has happened after last post.

Rust fixing the drivers rocker panel. It felt soft, and when starting to investigate more, it was in terrible shape and needed multiple layers of metal to fix. Overly complex structure there, so it took couple days to fix.

rust1.jpegrust2.jpegrust3.jpegrust4.jpegrust5.jpegrust6.jpeg

Also some structural reinforcements. Blocks that connect frame rails to firewall and a bar that connects frame rails in the front.

You can also see the Citroen C2 steering gear fitted.

blocks.jpeg
fontbar.jpeg


Also some holes filled.
shifter.jpeg

bumper.jpeg


Front battery box has taken its shape, and its off for powder coating.

batterybox_front.jpeg


Headlights from https://vintagecarleds.com/

headlights.jpeg


The steering gear

I want to have electric power steering, as it won't make a sound and does not consume energy while idle.

Guys fitted that Citroen C2 Electric steering gear, and my job was to make it work. Unfortunately after trying pretty much everything, it did not make a sound. I bought another one, and did some bench testing at home with it, but the same results. You can turn the steering wheel and wheels turn, but no power assist. I think these used units that I've bought have been in a crash, and the torque sensor has died. I tried supplying 5V + ground directly to torque sensor wires, and hooking up an oscilloscope to sensor output wires, but they had constant voltage and it did not change related how I turned the wheel or created resistance while turning.

While doing that, I noticed that the lock-to-lock required 3,7 turns.. So it's super slow. I could buy yet another, maybe remanufactured, but I don't want anymore as it's just too slow. Modern cars have like 2,5 turns lock to lock.

There are hacked electric power steering solutions, but all of those have motor in the steering column. This is a problem because the rack is mounted so close, that there is no space to fit that motor below the steering wheel. I haven't found any solutions that would use motor in a rack that are already proven working. So I guess I need to start thinking of having hydraulic rack after all. If I go that route, maybe BMW Z3 rack would work if it's not too wide. It's fast too, about 2,7 turns. All ideas are welcome.

Next up is the rear battery box and attachments for the Tesla charger, BMS, DC-DC, air compressor and air tank.
 
Sorry about the steering bit Mane. I looked at a few electric units as I had the same desire to explore that, but after talking with a lot of people I learned that nobody had been able to get them working. I might have mentioned this to you last year. It's too bad for you because it is such a perfect solution since you are also not powering your brakes. Perhaps you go non-assist like your brakes? Ive been driving my car a lot without power hooked up (my hydraulic rack, but no pump yet) and it is like driving my old cars back in the day. It's only parking that you really need it, and not much at that. That would save you a lot of efforts, but you would want more turns of course. Just a thought. Probably a bad one though :)
 
I'm so annoyed by it. I had everything worked out. I got the C2 ECU CAN communicating, wrote c++ rpm and speed emulator for Raspberry PI that was constantly sending messages over can-bus just like Citroen C2 does. Worked out all the wiring and all was supposed to be exactly correct. Even now, when I have decided to not use it, I'm tempted to make it work. Just can't swallow the defeat I guess. But as continuing this would require purchasing a new or refurbished rack and maybe ECU too, I'm not sure if it's worth it, as I'm not 100% sure that it would solve my problems. That would be like 300-400 euros more wasted then.
 
I’m sure you’ve researched this way more than I have, but here is a system called Easy Steer that has been fitted underneath a 2002. What they don’t show is if the cover panel fits after the install. I hope you get your system figured out because I’m hoping to go down a similar route.

 
@WALTER - I wrote to the guy behind easysteer (Simon I believe his name is) enquiring about a system to be installed into my E9 (manual steering, RHD) and didn't get a reply - His website is also very 2005, so I'm not sure they're even still in business.
 
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