1974 mint green (mintgrun) 4 speed project on BaT (NMNA)

HB Chris

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I disagree. It is the first area to go and not a leading indicator of other major problems. You can see that the rust is on the trailing edge of the fender. The leading edge is open an accessible from the well. The trailing edge is sandwiched against the structural (and very thick) lower a-pillar. Moisture gets trapped in there and the paper thin fender takes the hit. The lower A-pillar just gets pitted.

You can fix this without touching the rockers. Conversely, if the rockers are bad you need to remove both front AND rear lower fenders, as they wrap around the rocker and are welded in place..
That fender rust is farther back than you think and the rockers look horrible, it all needs to come apart in my opinion.
 

Markos

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That fender rust is farther back than you think and the rockers look horrible, it all needs to come apart in my opinion.
I won’t debate you in this one. You clearly stated it was your opinion. All I can say is that the need to pull the car apart is highly subjective, and contingent upon goals. Many members here are driving their cars with as much rust or more rust than this car. Yet somehow they seem to be enjoying themselves. Very few people that pull the fenders end up working on the lower a pillar.

I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate. I think I’ve just spent too much time this week reading about what these cars “need”, and the 100K restoration estimates on BaT aren’t helping.
 

WALTER

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I won’t debate you in this one. You clearly stated it was your opinion. All I can say is that the need to pull the car apart is highly subjective, and contingent upon goals. Many members here are driving their cars with as much rust or more rust than this car. Yet somehow they seem to be enjoying themselves. Very few people that pull the fenders end up working on the lower a pillar.

I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate. I think I’ve just spent too much time this week reading about what these cars “need”, and the 100K restoration estimates on BaT aren’t helping.
I agree with others that the lower fender looks dicey. I had less visible rust in a previous coupe and when the paint was stripped, the few bubbles on the surface was just the tip of a gigantic rusty iceberg underneath and aft. But...I also agree with what I believe your sentiment to be Markos, that our coupes aren't really any different than many cars of this era that are prone to rust, and that with values increasing for well sorted examples, a high dollar restoration may be warranted for all but the biggest basket cases. Maybe 10 years ago a $50K restoration on this coupe would leave one $10K or more upside down when up for sale, but now one could expect to break even on a $100K restoration and maybe make some money if they held on to it for a few years.
 

eriknetherlands

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My car had lighter rust on the outside of the front wings, just dime sized. But it had a hole the size of a dime through all of the underlying layers .

But you do not neccesarily need to fix it. I drove 3 years and did 15000km in it. Witha all its rust. And it were amazing miles.

Now I am taking it apart and I've sorted it out, but for sure I can understand if people just keep driving. The sound, nor the grin, doesn't get better when you floor it with a properly fixed front fender.
 

Wes

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My opinion is that the rarity of the color adds almost nothing to the value, especially this color. I think that prospective buyers still want Polaris or Schwarz. E9 owners that are inka or golf still wish they had a classy second e9 in Fjord. The 70’s colors are awesome but the metalics win the beauty contest IMO. I’m still painting mine Colorado...
Ceylon wins in a canter for me but I'm probably biased :D
Second place is Chamonix..
 

bluecoupe30!

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My car had lighter rust on the outside of the front wings, just dime sized. But it had a hole the size of a dime through all of the underlying layers .

But you do not neccesarily need to fix it. I drove 3 years and did 15000km in it. Witha all its rust. And it were amazing miles.

Now I am taking it apart and I've sorted it out, but for sure I can understand if people just keep driving. The sound, nor the grin, doesn't get better when you floor it with a properly fixed front fender.
Well this is the thing. Many years ago after lusting after an Austin Healey 3000, BJ8, Mark 3, I finally found one I felt would be my forever Healey. I lived out of town from the big Healey Club in Vancouver, BC. But purchased my car there and attended my first club meeting. I was so proud to have a car, and meet with all these experts. They all said I should begin taking the car apart and begin the restoration of this car. Wait, this was 1976, the car was built in 1964. I asked "Where are your Healey's"? Answer was, their cars were all apart and would take many years , I mean many years, until they could be driven again. Not my choice for fun car ownership. I drove that Healey everywhere, I mean even across Canada and shipped to Europe for some more fun driving experiences. I did eventually initiate the complete frame up restoration, but point is..only stop and cut into your car when you think that is your only option. Because sometimes, it really isn't ;). Still have this Healey, BTW
553389E7-FF73-49EE-B482-95B010662F47_1_105_c.jpeg
 

Markos

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but point is..only stop and cut into your car when you think that is your only option. Because sometimes, it really isn't ;). Still have this Healey, BTW
Now I am taking it apart and I've sorted it out, but for sure I can understand if people just keep driving. The sound, nor the grin, doesn't get better when you floor it with a properly fixed front fender.
Somebody gets it! :)
 

Markos

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The sound of wind whistling through roached fenders at 100mph makes you feel alive. So I've heard
I’m just biased. My first car (given to me by my parents) didn’t have floors. Not to be confused with my brother’s first car, which also didn’t have floors. #midwestlife
 

bavbob

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At some point, since I documented my restoration starting point, hours of work and have kept track of every dime spent, I will post the details when done. After seeing the 100K estimate mentioned here, I think we should have a sense of what it costs to do it yourself, starting point and finishing line and time. This will help the DIY and non_DIY people in decision making.
 

bavbob

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The other thing is to look at parts receipts and see how prices have trended...like that armrest part someone was looking for for 50 bucks, that I paid 17 dollars for a year ago from W and N
 

Dick Steinkamp

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At some point, since I documented my restoration starting point, hours of work and have kept track of every dime spent, I will post the details when done. After seeing the 100K estimate mentioned here, I think we should have a sense of what it costs to do it yourself, starting point and finishing line and time. This will help the DIY and non_DIY people in decision making.
I do the same with every collector car I own...but for my own selfish reasons. My history has been that I don't keep cars forever. Even though I said I would for the first 5-6 cars I figured out quickly that I'd run out of space and money if I kept them all and continued doing projects.

When I am considering another project, I research what one similar when "done" is selling for. Then I make a budget of what it is going to take to get the car to that level. I make the budget conservative so I don't get surprised with some big expenses when I get into the car. If I think I can do the car for an amount equal to or less than the resale price...I do it. Otherwise I pass. I then keep detailed, complete records of what I am spending to track against my budget.

It's worked so far. I've done probably 30 cars and have not lost money yet. Many break even or a little better, a few home runs. It keeps the hobby going for me.
 

Markos

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I’m trying to keep my total budget at about $20K, including the car. I have just about everything I need except a little metal and a lot of
time. I was a bit worried about rubber and chrome but at this point I have all new rubber and little need for chrome (CSL tribute). I should be able to keep paint and body under $10K with a good local painter. My build isn’t exactly a realistic portrayal of all in cost because I parted a CSI and bought and sold my way into the stuff I needed (about ~$25K in parts). Not to mention very fair deals from good BMW friends.
 

Markos

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That seems optimistically low, to me. Then again, I don't know what you are ending up with. Looking forward to seeing it in the end.
Worth a separate discussion but I’m the optimistic type. I’m currently $10K all in (edit: $8.1K) with the car, a tested Carl Nelson B35/G265 drivetrain, all new rubber, perfect dash, great wood, good scheel seats, headliner, good CN springs. I do still need bushings and to rebuild my CSL struts which could cost me $2K. With that said I still have $2K worth of parts I can unload. So I’m comfortable with the number. I’ve recommended the painter to several BMW friends in town and he’s gotten them taken care of with the aforementioned budget. I’m looking for driver quality paint, not a show car. With that said he is quite good, he just have zero overhead.
 
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autokunst

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With a separate discussion but I’m the optimistic type. I’m currently $10K all in with the car, a tested Carl Nelson B35/G265 drivetrain, all new rubber, perfect dash, great wood, good scheel seats, headliner, good springs. I do still need bushings and to rebuild my struts which could cost me $2K. With that said I still have $2K worth of parts I can unload. So I’m comfortable with the number. I’ve recommended the painter to several BMW friends in town and he’s gotten them taken care of with the aforementioned budget. I’m looking for driver quality paint, not a show car. With that said he is quite good, he just have zero overhead.
Ah, I see. So you are factoring in your "profits" from the part-out(s) and speaking in terms of net outcome after several layers of E9 endeavors? I guess I can factor revenue streams from other endeavors and make my numbers look better. :) I made $4k when I sold my M3, after driving it for 75k miles. If I factor that in, I am doing better already.
 

Dick Steinkamp

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I think that keeping the money out of the project is part of the fun for me. Easy to write checks or outsource labor. Tougher but much more satisfying (for me) to network for low cost parts, repairing used parts, learning to do things I haven't done before instead of farming them out, horse trading.
 
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