FS: 1973 3.0cs/Alpina Tribute

[bert35csi]

This has nagged me for awhile now but what goes into a $35,000 paint job?

I took that question as "what goes into a $35k paint job". The paint job itself may be worth $35k based on labor, material and supplies. A $35k paint job on a coupe is not worth the cost, in my opinion, regardless of the coupe.

Dan,

I'm kind of aware of all the factors that go into the cost of a quality or great paint job. Good body work which includes a fastidious prepping process is where all the money and expertise go, with the actual painting of the car the easy part.

$35K in a full body shell restoration and paint is easily comprehensible and attained but not just a $35,000 paint job liked how it was described in the ad.

Bert

 

[candymanpf]

Hi, curious the status of the car at this point. Is it still for sale? Do you have photos of the car during the restoration?
Thanks,
Paul

 

[OCCoupe]

Ebay/Cost of paint

Chicane[/quote]

I think what we are talking about is cost v.s. value. I have seen six figure Ferrari's that didn't cost $35K to completely repaint. Obviously spending this much on body and paint for a car of this type is not worth the money...just check out the final auction price.[/quote]


I have been selling exotic and ultra luxury cars for 10 years, I have a tremendous amount of experience with selling cars on Ebay and I also have a decent amount of experience with what is entailed in the paint process and also the restoration process of a car.

Ebay is more or less a tool that is used to advertise a car or at least a car of this caliber. I have sold many cars for far more than what the final bid was on Ebay. Ebay as a tool helps generate interest in a large scale. The goal is to get someone to contact you. It is common to sell the car outside of Ebay to someone that has responded to the auction. I recently sold a Rolls-Royce Phantom for $30,000.00 more than final bid at auction close. I was able to communicate with the potential buyer and represent the car in a manner that cannot be done via an auction/ad. Fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people out there that just like to go through the paces of bidding on an item just to have bragging rights that they are buying a collector car. A guy with a high net worth usually cuts to the chase and goes straight to the seller and doesn't mess around with the auction itself.

Paint is a completely different subject and yes, one can spend up to $100,000.00 on a paint job, it just depends on a the car and its owner. I have a client that put a $15,000.00 paint job on a 1954 Ferrari 250GT Europa, the car was incredible and flawless at $15,000.00, a Concourse winner. The 1954 250 happens to be a simple body, very little trim and easy to work on. This car had 17,000 documented miles and the body was straight as an arrow, or however straight hand pounded panels can be. This man knew the owner of the paint shop personally and he was looking for original quality, not better than which is now becoming very common in show cars. On the other side, my company had a 1931 Phantom Springfield that was a 99point car and the paint and body came out to almost $75,000.00.

My point is, there is always more than meets the eye and everything is speculation and gossip. Only the seller and the buyer know the real story.

My .02+ cents.
Mike

 

[chicane]

Re: Ebay/Cost of paint

LOL.

Ebay is more or less a tool that is used to advertise a car or at least a car of this caliber.

No, eBay is a place where millions of people use market forces to determine the price of an item.

I have sold many cars for far more than what the final bid was on Ebay.

There's one born every minute.

{blather snipped}

NEWS FLASH: we are in the midst of a very intense economic downturn. Banks aren't lending and the people with cash aren't buying. And they especially aren't buying overpriced coupes or other expensive toys. That means....supply high, demand low, price goes down. Even in a good market I cannot see this car making it to 6 figures. As others have stated before in this thread, just because you pump $100K+ in doesn't mean you will get $100K+ out.

My point is, there is always more than meets the eye and everything is speculation and gossip. Only the seller and the buyer know the real story.

????

My .02+ cents.
Mike

According to eBay your $.02 is worth about a penny.

 

[OCCoupe]

I guess Chicane can never be wrong or just disagree, what world do you live in anyway?

If you couldn't understand what I was relaying then you aren't listening. In my very real world, selling expensive luxury and exotic cars is my business, I certainly must have more experience with the ultra luxury car market than a professional blogger with nothing better to do than to find an argument or a reason to put down every possible victim, pretty sad.

Millions of people don't set the prices of our Coupes, we do and so do collectors. They don't necessarily buy for today's prices, they buy for reason of desire and quality. Ask my local BMW dealer who just purchased an all original CS for $75,000.00. Why is the Ferrari Enzo still climbing in value when everything is declining. You need to have an open mind to understand the car market. These are chevys and fords. You can't treat this market the same way you treat daily drivers. If you do then you are fool and are responsible for the diminishing values of our Coupes.

When you decide to be open minded and would like to learn what the real world is, send me your application, I'll consider you for a job, in the meantime I'll stick to communicating with other members that are creative and kind in their criticism.

Yours Truly,
Mike

 

[OCCoupe]

In addition, banks are lending money on cars, at least the banks I deal with. They do have a prerequisite though, you must have good credit and a job.

In my post I never made reference to this Coupe making it to $100k or any dollar amount at that.

I won't even reply to you .02cents bit, childish at best.

How often do they let you out to play?

Mike

 

[chicane]

I guess Chicane can never be wrong or just disagree, what world do you live in anyway?

The real one, where coupes like this do NOT go for 6 figures.

If you couldn't understand what I was relaying then you aren't listening. In my very real world, selling expensive luxury and exotic cars is my business, I certainly must have more experience with the ultra luxury car market than a professional blogger with nothing better to do than to find an argument or a reason to put down every possible victim, pretty sad.

Really? What is your business address? Your website? Please tell us more about your business because I have never heard of you?

Millions of people don't set the prices of our Coupes, we do and so do collectors.

Right and they are on this board and on eBay and they did set the price of that coupe....$45K.

{more blather snipped}

I am very open minded. I also don't let car salesmen talk up the market to try to improve their bottom line. I let the market do it's job.

 

[chicane]

In addition, banks are lending money on cars, at least the banks I deal with. They do have a prerequisite though, you must have good credit and a job.

Maybe you should get cable. They have this network called CNBC. It might clue you in to certain market conditions.

In my post I never made reference to this Coupe making it to $100k or any dollar amount at that.

The person selling it was hoping to get $105K....the market said $45K.

 

[OCCoupe]

rollsroycenewportbeach.com feel free to call, I'm more than happy to talk to anyone that is civil and willing to have an adult conversation, I am also willing to buy you a cup of coffee if you wish to learn something or if you have something that I could learn from you; but it would need to be creative and educational not childish and boring.

Cheers!
Mike

 

[acat2002]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MF6AtI2dpA

nuff said?

 

[acat2002]

Why is the Ferrari Enzo still climbing in value when everything is declining. You need to have an open mind to understand the car market. These are chevys and fords. You can't treat this market the same way you treat daily drivers. If you do then you are fool and are responsible for the diminishing values of our Coupes.

With all respect Mike, you're in the collector car market (professionally) should know better than to compare Ferraris's with Coupes for the sake of pounding a point home. The day that Enzos and early Ferraris are mentioned in the same sentence as BMW Coupes at swanky cocktail parties, be sure to let me know. The J.Colbern 250 GT sale at $11MM (I know you didn't mention this) and rising Enzo values are not at all germane to Coupes, nor are they a guage of the collector car market in general. If you were using Ferrari's as a yardstick of the economy, then I still have a problem with that.

Also, when I say with all due respect I mean that. There is a lot of knowledge on this board. A great deal of that knowledge is held by people who make a living (professionally) either trading, restoring, supplying E9s. Is it out of line for collectors, owners and hobbyists to be a bit cynical when it comes to posts regarding FS ads, values, opinions etc? I say absolutely not! Maybe not everyone on this board wants to buy a ketchup popsicle, though, and are vocal about it. Some are more vocal and sometimes take an aggressive stance, but overall, the negative (if you can call them all negative) comments regarding value is mostly fellow coupe owner's feeling like their being "sold" on something, even if that is not the intent. I'd hate to have no more FS postings on this board because sellers are afraid of being berated. That would be bad for everyone.

If RonP finds some buyer that just received a $1,000,000 bonus for driving a bank into the ground and has $100,000 to drop on a resto-mod coupe, then all the power to him. Great news for all of us. Again, let us know when that happens and I'll toast my glass in celebration.

Also, if you want to get into a pissing contest with Chic, all you need to do is present facts (i.e. timely confirmed sale prices of coupes) and I have a feeling the argument will be ended. If I can speak for Chic in a more diplomatic way, I think he gets wound up over the whole "it's because I said so" prose taken by authors regarding coupe values. I personally don't get so wound up over the "because I said so and I'm an expert" comments because it is all white-noise to me. Until somebody shows me actual confirmed sales data, these are simply asking prices.

 

[pj]

you both have good points , chic needs to chill out a bit IMHO, but oc look where you live dude we are in sunny cal, we have the cars everyone else wants ,we live where everyone dreams of living.We have more people that have the means to buy rons coupe if they so please . I agree with chic that this coupe is worth 40-50 k .It is really nice but it is a hot rod built to one persons personal tastes . Would I buy it hell no, I would but the twin turbo beast for sale in the Sf craigslist. In defence of OC ,there is a very solid number of people out there that will pay top dollar for a top dollar car which no-one can deny this is even with the seats and slushbox.
I had a lot of interest in my coupe ,but some people wanted stock numbers matching models, some wanted a differant color etc. All be it mine was a lot lower on the price and therefore I think the serious collectors that wanted to have a show car were not going for it.It sold pretty strong to an owner who will take it to that level.
Guys lets just be nice here

 

[acat2002]

....and more thoughts on this car in particular.

What if somebody (maybe even a well-respected architect) owned a Frank Lloyd Wright house that was (for the sake of argument) worth $1,000,000. They then deconstructed the entire house, maybe added a few walls, an au-pair suite, 3-car garage, maybe found a way to wire 52" flat-panel plasma TVs in every room and took a full page advertisement in Architectural Digest magazine offering the house for $1,200,000 because they had "improved" upon the design. I don't know, do you think the architectural "community" might be vocal about this bold venture???

This car is a marvelous achievement in terms of build quality (it seems) and I'd certainly rather drive this than my present Coupe, but it is sort of confused. It wants to play in the big-dollar collector arena, but also wants to be a project hot-rod. It's not original, or even period correct for that matter. I could deal with the questionable interior colors and easily swap the rims and really enjoy driving it, but not for six figures.

I'll ask this again....WHat if somebody wired $100,000 into your bank account (tax free) and the only stipulation was that you had to buy a car. Previously I said you could do whatever you wanted, but I want to make this more narrowed. What if you had to by ANY BMW available for sale. You could buy two or three cars, or maybe contribute the $100,000 to the Grey Lady, or another BMW race car - doesnt matter. Would you consider buying RonP's car for $100,000?, $90,000?, $80,000? let me know when I'm getting close.

 

[OCCoupe]

Thank you Acat2002, all I was doing was offering my professional opinion to the post. You are certainly a diplomat. Let me know if you are ever in SoCal, I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

Go team!
Mike

 

[CSfan]

Sold?

One Question. Is the car sold, yet?

 

[OCCoupe]

I respect and appreciate your point Acat2002, it is very valid; but all i was doing in my original post to this topic is pointing out that the cost of paint is only relevant to the scenario, this particular owner probably went overboard and that Ebay is not and, I still hold firm to this, a place to gauge the value of this car. This is a collector's car, we are all collectors. If this car does end up selling it for sure won't be due to a winning bid at auction, it will be the result of the buyer contacting the seller behind the scenes and working out a deal.
The closing bid won;t necessarily reflect the car's value.

Just look at my regional post, there really wasn't need for an attack, that was just ridiculous.

PJ, thank you for the support.

Mike

 

[chicane]

I respect and appreciate your point Acat2002, it is very valid; but all i was doing in my original post to this topic is pointing out that the cost of paint is only relevant to the scenario, this particular owner probably went overboard

Probably? Try definitely. I have seen cars that have been modded to the hilt, with no hope of getting that money back. Just because you put $100K in doesn't mean you will get $100K out.

and that Ebay is not and, I still hold firm to this, a place to gauge the value of this car. This is a collector's car, we are all collectors.

You couldn't be more wrong. An auction (specifically eBay) is precisely the place where you gauge the market value of a unique vehicle such as this. E9 collectors go onto Ebay daily and bid on our cars.

If this car does end up selling it for sure won't be due to a winning bid at auction, it will be the result of the buyer contacting the seller behind the scenes and working out a deal.

If the buyer has any brains he will have researched this car, found out about the auction and negotiate from there. Either way you will never find a buyer for this car at $100K+

The closing bid won;t necessarily reflect the car's value.

That's exactly what it does. That's what an auction is for to determine what the open market will pay for something.

 

[OCCoupe]

Ok, I'm throwing my hands up, I'm dealing with an idiot, what else should I expect, I'm signing off and hope no one was offended by my input, I certainly wasn't trying to; but it is obvious that one person here just doesn't get it. Chicane, is your crankshaft too small, is that the problem? I know what I know, I attribute my success to experience and an open mind.

OcCoupe out.

Have a great Suberbowl Sunday guys!

 

[CSfan]

Back up..

Back up.... here we go again......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1973-BMW-3-0cs-Coupe-Full-Restoration-Alpina-Mods_W0QQitemZ230323050635QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item230323050635&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

[chicane]

Ok, I'm throwing my hands up, I'm dealing with an idiot,

No the idiot is the guy who puts a GOLF CART as one of his vehicles in his signature. Also do you own any CARS that were not made during the Nixon Administration? I know that if I worked as a salesman at a RR dealership I would own at least one exotic.