Lorelei will be available for purchase
- Thread starter Gary Knox
- Start date
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
hahhaha, i stirred the pot …. perhaps not read between the lines, what me surprizes are those top prices some E9 get.... not to speak of CSL's…. yes, i know, a complete restoration costs a lot of $$$$ , but in the end it stays the same car to drive.....at least if the owner still daires it … because of some clouds in the sky...
a E9 is indeed a beautiful car , more, the nicest BMW ever made ! Was direct my choice in 2013 when i wanted to buy a car for the "2014 Tulpen Rally " , at that time youngest allowable 1970.... so my red car from 01/70. Bought it in Germany for…. $15k...… rally conversion was X2 $ , but of course you can make that expensive as you like …..
Later i bought my blue '70 coupe... for $25k.... and 10k further the car was "restored" . Ok, i have a friend welder who renewed all floors and corners, me doing all prep work.... perhaps another extra $5/10k for a shop to do it ....
My feeling : a E9 is a nice oldtimer , easy to maintain , great looks ... but "never" worth more than $50k..... all above are investments , not to enjoy the driving... IMHO. More, who can enjoy joyriding a CSL ? rich people i assume.... that excludes me
but no envy , let them do …..
O yes, the 928... i can fully understand you like it or hate it ......but we do historic rally , so i needed a "old" car .... i have a supercharged BMW 850i but that thing is so heavy.... a 928 had better papers to start with. With the IDA48 conversion and other "things" i hope to be around 300...350 reliable HP , enough to steer that "monster" along our small roads and sharp corners.... and have some "torque" getting out of those ......
With the 928 i will be at $70k in rally version.... just enough to buy a good oem 964..... air cooled .. to begin with
a E9 is indeed a beautiful car , more, the nicest BMW ever made ! Was direct my choice in 2013 when i wanted to buy a car for the "2014 Tulpen Rally " , at that time youngest allowable 1970.... so my red car from 01/70. Bought it in Germany for…. $15k...… rally conversion was X2 $ , but of course you can make that expensive as you like …..
Later i bought my blue '70 coupe... for $25k.... and 10k further the car was "restored" . Ok, i have a friend welder who renewed all floors and corners, me doing all prep work.... perhaps another extra $5/10k for a shop to do it ....
My feeling : a E9 is a nice oldtimer , easy to maintain , great looks ... but "never" worth more than $50k..... all above are investments , not to enjoy the driving... IMHO. More, who can enjoy joyriding a CSL ? rich people i assume.... that excludes me
but no envy , let them do …..O yes, the 928... i can fully understand you like it or hate it ......but we do historic rally , so i needed a "old" car .... i have a supercharged BMW 850i but that thing is so heavy.... a 928 had better papers to start with. With the IDA48 conversion and other "things" i hope to be around 300...350 reliable HP , enough to steer that "monster" along our small roads and sharp corners.... and have some "torque" getting out of those ......
With the 928 i will be at $70k in rally version.... just enough to buy a good oem 964..... air cooled .. to begin with
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
Barry, with a weight close to 1600Kg, I'm not really sure a 928 is a light carbut as you seem to pretty well know the 928s, I'm sure you're aware about the 928 S4 CS
( Clubsport ) cars which indeed are true lightweights ... Good luck however finding one : With only 19 cars built ( add some prototypes and a handfull of special order cars ) certainly not the easiest 928 to buy
Yannick, a lot of that weight are lux parts, isolation etc... i think, after removing all that junk, we are at 1250 kg. Must put the car on my scales when engine is mounted. Of course our roll cage adds about 50 kg. Safety first ! and i just made a dual full stainless 3" exhaust … that thing is heavy !
I'm going to put another 'log' on the fire!! Yes, I fully agree, the e9 is far more BEAUTIFUL than the 928. And, the 928 is a far greater performance car than the e9. I've owned 3 of one and 6 of the other.
Now - a bit of my history, and why I bought my first 928 (I did not like the appearance of the cars when they were introduced) In the late '80's), I had a technical development business relationship with Porsche's Weissach Advanced Engine Development group. A man named Hans Mezger was the head of this group of engineers. Hans is generally regarded as one of the 2 or 3 top European engine designers of the 20th century. He had design responsibility for everything from the original air cooled 6 cylinder for the 911 up through the 12 cylinder 962 of LeMans fame and ultimately the early 2000's GT3 cars. Over the ~2 years of our cooperative program, Hans and I developed a good relationship, and he often asked me to join him for lunch at the Weissach dining room at the conclusion of our technical meetings.
One day, when having lunch with Hans and one of his associates - partially to make conversation, I said "Hans, I've never owned a Porsche and I do not buy new sports cars because they depreciate too fast. IF I were to buy a used Porsche, what should I buy?"
He started to answer, then he and his associate Gerhard broke into a conversation 'auf Deutsche', very little of which I understood. When they concluded, Hans said "it depends". So I asked "depends on what'? Hans said something like: If you want to have a car you can have a lot of fun with driving for short distances on twisty roads, then you should buy a 911SC like I have. But, if you want to travel longer distances at high speeds and be very comfortable and relaxed while driving, you should buy a 928 like Gerhard has. Those are the two best cars Porsche has built.
Gerhard then broke in, saying: "I have a ski chalet in Switzerland which is 250 miles from here. I can get in my car in the morning, drive to the ski chalet in less than 2 hours, and when I arrive I am very relaxed and can put on my skis and have a great time skiing for the rest of the day. IF Hans tries to follow me to the chalet, he will be exhausted when we get there and would need to rest at least until noon".
Hans replied with "Yah Wohl'. Then we went on to different topics.
About 5 years later, my wife and I were financially comfortable enough that I could consider buying a used sports car, and in starting that process I remembered my conversation with Hans and Gerhard. And, I remembered that I had never driven a rear engine car, and perhaps being in my late 50's, I might not want to find out what happens with a rear engine car when you lift the right foot as you are entering a curve a bit too fast. So I focused on and found a nice 5 year old '87 S4, bought it expecting to move to another marque in 2-3 years. But, I liked the performance so much, found the Porsche Club high performance driving program, and never looked back until I sold the '89 S4 track car and the '94 GTS. in 2015. That's when the beauty of the e9 seduced me one more time!! - ha.
Gary
Now - a bit of my history, and why I bought my first 928 (I did not like the appearance of the cars when they were introduced) In the late '80's), I had a technical development business relationship with Porsche's Weissach Advanced Engine Development group. A man named Hans Mezger was the head of this group of engineers. Hans is generally regarded as one of the 2 or 3 top European engine designers of the 20th century. He had design responsibility for everything from the original air cooled 6 cylinder for the 911 up through the 12 cylinder 962 of LeMans fame and ultimately the early 2000's GT3 cars. Over the ~2 years of our cooperative program, Hans and I developed a good relationship, and he often asked me to join him for lunch at the Weissach dining room at the conclusion of our technical meetings.
One day, when having lunch with Hans and one of his associates - partially to make conversation, I said "Hans, I've never owned a Porsche and I do not buy new sports cars because they depreciate too fast. IF I were to buy a used Porsche, what should I buy?"
He started to answer, then he and his associate Gerhard broke into a conversation 'auf Deutsche', very little of which I understood. When they concluded, Hans said "it depends". So I asked "depends on what'? Hans said something like: If you want to have a car you can have a lot of fun with driving for short distances on twisty roads, then you should buy a 911SC like I have. But, if you want to travel longer distances at high speeds and be very comfortable and relaxed while driving, you should buy a 928 like Gerhard has. Those are the two best cars Porsche has built.
Gerhard then broke in, saying: "I have a ski chalet in Switzerland which is 250 miles from here. I can get in my car in the morning, drive to the ski chalet in less than 2 hours, and when I arrive I am very relaxed and can put on my skis and have a great time skiing for the rest of the day. IF Hans tries to follow me to the chalet, he will be exhausted when we get there and would need to rest at least until noon".
Hans replied with "Yah Wohl'. Then we went on to different topics.
About 5 years later, my wife and I were financially comfortable enough that I could consider buying a used sports car, and in starting that process I remembered my conversation with Hans and Gerhard. And, I remembered that I had never driven a rear engine car, and perhaps being in my late 50's, I might not want to find out what happens with a rear engine car when you lift the right foot as you are entering a curve a bit too fast. So I focused on and found a nice 5 year old '87 S4, bought it expecting to move to another marque in 2-3 years. But, I liked the performance so much, found the Porsche Club high performance driving program, and never looked back until I sold the '89 S4 track car and the '94 GTS. in 2015. That's when the beauty of the e9 seduced me one more time!! - ha.
Gary
Last edited:
Gary, that story needs to be elaborated on and published! Not a book, but at least a full length article!
Another thing I like about Gary--he encourages the mad Belgian to take his for sale thread way off topic during the auction, and then takes it further off topic to tell an amazing story. Love it.
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
I had just been reading a pissy seller on the parts forum, and I thought how nice it was to read your and Gary's conversation by comparison. Good people.
Gary, that's a great story/history. For you as with most of us, it has been a great ride. Steve
For Peter - there is a bit more to the story.
The luncheon discussion almost didn't happen. We'd finished our technical discussions about 11:30 that day, and as we were collecting our stuff to leave the meeting room I said "Hans, we don't have any further commitments today, so could stay for lunch if you'd like' (rather cheeky in retrospect wasn't it!). Hans responded "Oh I'm sorry Gary but I'm scheduled to have lunch with Mario Andretti today - maybe we have lunch next time". "I understand", I said, "and thanks for the great meeting today" and we left the room together. After about 10 strides, Hans stopped and said "Gary I will have lunch with you today - Mario - he is here all the time, I can have lunch with him some other day". My response was "Hans I am incredibly flattered, and hope it won't be a problem for you". And off we went to the Weissach dining room.
Really funny how things turn out some times!
Cheers,
Gary
PS: There are a few other memorable experiences from having responsibility for that composite metal matrix research program. We also had joint activity with Ferrari's R & D lab. After one meeting, about a month before the start of the next Formula 1 season, the Ferrari R & D manager asked if I'd like to sit in the cockpit of Gerhard Berger's car for the coming season, which was nearby. I'll let you guess my response!!!
The luncheon discussion almost didn't happen. We'd finished our technical discussions about 11:30 that day, and as we were collecting our stuff to leave the meeting room I said "Hans, we don't have any further commitments today, so could stay for lunch if you'd like' (rather cheeky in retrospect wasn't it!). Hans responded "Oh I'm sorry Gary but I'm scheduled to have lunch with Mario Andretti today - maybe we have lunch next time". "I understand", I said, "and thanks for the great meeting today" and we left the room together. After about 10 strides, Hans stopped and said "Gary I will have lunch with you today - Mario - he is here all the time, I can have lunch with him some other day". My response was "Hans I am incredibly flattered, and hope it won't be a problem for you". And off we went to the Weissach dining room.
Really funny how things turn out some times!
Cheers,
Gary
PS: There are a few other memorable experiences from having responsibility for that composite metal matrix research program. We also had joint activity with Ferrari's R & D lab. After one meeting, about a month before the start of the next Formula 1 season, the Ferrari R & D manager asked if I'd like to sit in the cockpit of Gerhard Berger's car for the coming season, which was nearby. I'll let you guess my response!!!
Last edited:
OK, maybe a book!!!
Excellent Gary, you can actually claim that you 'beat out' Mario Andretti.
Dohn
Well-Known Member
Or you could say you "ate his lunch"...
Tone
Well-Known Member
Gary, please keep the stories coming. They are wonderful to read. Thx Tim.
Hi Gary,
I just check in every few days and had to mention what a wonderful read your stories are. If I was on the other side of the collector sideline, your car would never have made it to BAT. I hope it goes crazy near the end of the auction, as it should.
Best of luck,
Chris
I just check in every few days and had to mention what a wonderful read your stories are. If I was on the other side of the collector sideline, your car would never have made it to BAT. I hope it goes crazy near the end of the auction, as it should.
Best of luck,
Chris
Great story and fantastic Coupe.
completely dumbfounded that this coupe has stayed stagnant for the last couple of days. i really expect it to go crazy in the last few hours
The real bidding never begins until less than an hour before the end.
Tim,
Had to laugh, there are a lot of VERY DULL experiences in 31 years of corporate activity. I felt very fortunate to have some fun times.
Gary
Last 2 minutes could last for half an hour or more.