Raven gets a new nest

[Gary Knox]

Stephen,

I didn't mean to have my comments considered 'advice'! I can only convey my experience, which has been great with a similar size unit here in southeast PA for 13 years. It heats/cools the 24 X 34 X 10.5 foot space very well. I have 6" wall insulation and 12" ceiling insulation. Also, double pane windows, and I've put double thickness of a 'bubble' type plastic insulation covering over the double size garage door. That insulates the wood door well enough that when I do an IR temp check of it with exterior temps in the high teens, the wall temps at about 62 degrees, the surface of the door insulation is about 58 degrees (heat pump thermostat set at about 65 degrees)

So happy for you that the garage will be ready for winter work.

Gary--

 

[autokunst]

So happy for you that the garage will be ready for winter work.

Ah, but will I get the car into the garage before winter? That's a big question. The garage will be done. Then I'll wait a month before putting a floor finish/coating down (a topic of discussion I look forward to getting into here), then install the lift... Spring might be a more realistic time to move the car back - but plenty of fun just working on the garage through the winter. I'll need to build a workbench... The list goes on.

 

[autokunst]

has a flavour of lloyd wrightness architecture

I have heard that more than a few times, and consider it complimentary. Although that wasn't what I was going for. I spent a long time designing that place - it is strangely challenging for the architect to design a place for themselves. There's a lot of pressure to make sure the architecture represents everything they believe in - everything they want to convey to future clients. I am immeasurably happy with the results, even as there are a number of items within the house that are forever changing. It will never be finished - which I hope isn't true for the car.

 

[Gary Knox]

Stephen,

IF you put an epoxy finish on the floor, I highly recommend using industrial grade epoxy. I put concrete stain on my concrete, which looked great (sprayed it on with fairly large droplets producing a pattern that almost looked like a carpet). Then I erred and put down the 'so called' epoxy. it does not hold up well to all the solvents, rubber, etc. that are used in car service, so I've lost much of the great look for the floor after 13 years.

Gary

 

[autokunst]

Stephen,

IF you put an epoxy finish on the floor, I highly recommend using industrial grade epoxy. I put concrete stain on my concrete, which looked great (sprayed it on with fairly large droplets producing a pattern that almost looked like a carpet). Then I erred and put down the 'so called' epoxy. it does not hold up well to all the solvents, rubber, etc. that are used in car service, so I've lost much of the great look for the floor after 13 years.

Gary

If money were no object (ha ha), I'd do a ground and polished concrete finish. But that isn't going to happen. I've been looking at the Griot's Garage epoxy floor paint. That seems to be a good balance of finish quality and economy (about $800 for this size garage, self installed). Griot's says that it is the best stuff ever... I do not personally care for the epoxy systems with the broadcast flakes. I feel like I'll lose a month of Sundays looking for fasteners that I've dropped. So it's either a uniform grey finish, or maybe a clear coat of a really durable (epoxy) finish.?.

 

[autokunst]

The crew is making good progress. Framing started on the two end walls.

And by the end of the day today three walls were up and sheathed.

This garage is huge. Rain is forecast for the next three days, unfortunately.

 

[Gary Knox]

Stephen,

From experience - yes it is HUGE. Within a few years you'll wish it was even HUGER!!

Gary--

 

[dave v. in nc]

Good progress! Thanks for the link to the heat pump info...I had followed Garys lead also, so, strength in numbers.

 

[Markos]

If money were no object (ha ha), I'd do a ground and polished concrete finish. But that isn't going to happen. I've been looking at the Griot's Garage epoxy floor paint. That seems to be a good balance of finish quality and economy (about $800 for this size garage, self installed). Griot's says that it is the best stuff ever... I do not personally care for the epoxy systems with the broadcast flakes. I feel like I'll lose a month of Sundays looking for fasteners that I've dropped. So it's either a uniform grey finish, or maybe a clear coat of a really durable (epoxy) finish.?.

Stephen, I used ArmorPoxy with Garage Journal's discount. You are in a good position where you can throw it down as soon as your concrete dries. That could be quite some time, and you may need to wait until the sprint. You won't need to etch or grind the concrete however. You need to do moisture tests to check that the concrete is ready for a coating. Sounds complicated, but it is just a piece of heavy mil plastic taped to the floor in various sections. You check it for beading water. I think I spent about $600 on 500sf. If I were to do it again, I would ensure that I waited for my spiked shoes to arrive. I would have only mixed half at once. I was scrambling towards the end. I also wouldn't have done the flakes. It does an excellent job of hiding debris, but my helper did a poor job of spreading them and it looks like crap.

Now if I were to do it again, I would just lay down porcelain tile. Tile can't get any easier on a large open space with a completely flat floor. The epoxy floor doesn't like it when you weld on it. It will burn. Porcelain tile will also show burn marks, but the strength and protective properties won't change. Porcelain is strong. I have dropped a screwdriver straight down on it like a lawn dart, and it only nicks the top. You can drop a hammer on it and it won't crack. It's fragile when loose, but not once it is bedded in mortar. If you have never done title before, know that bigger tiles are harder. They are more difficult to keep level, and they are hard to remove once you stick them down. But, since your floor is completely flat and open, 12"x24" tiles would work well. It may not be cost effective, but take a look at your local tile depot to see what they are offering.

 

[Gransin]

I don't know how common it is 'over there' but most people over here use concrete surface hardeners (powder, worked into the freshly placed concrete) on their garage/shop floors as the finished surface, there's usually different colors to choose from too. Not as stain resistant as epoxy or tiles, but it sure is nice if it's done properly, not crazy expensive either (over here, that is).

 

[autokunst]

You need to do moisture tests to check that the concrete is ready for a coating.

Agree- very easy to do, and an important step. Let's say minimum 28 days after the pour - likely a bit longer.

I think I spent about $600 on 500sf.

I'd be double that if there's no escalation in price due to time. So we're looking at a $1,200 solution with this option. As with the $800 Griot's Garage floor paint, my time is worth nothing.

Now if I were to do it again, I would just lay down porcelain tile.

A product I use on nearly every project, albeit not in the garage typically. Love the idea. But even with the lowest cost porcelain tiles I can source at $4/sf, we're at roughly $4,000 plus mortar, plus a fair amount more time than a fluid applied solution. I'd guestimate $4.5k or so plus more of my time in the end. I love this idea for the look and durability, but not so keen on the cost. Also, no floor is truly "flat". Although I've specified an absolute minimum pitch for drainage to the doors (as required by code), I anticipate that the floor will have a little bit of variation. Maybe it wouldn't affect a tile grid layout - maybe it would.

concrete surface hardeners (powder, worked into the freshly placed concrete)

I'd like to learn more about this. I haven't heard of this option before. We use chemical densifiers (liquid applied) for concrete to seal at the microscopic level, and also to harden the surface in preparation for grinding and polishing. But it sounds like the stuff you are referring to must be different.

 

[Gransin]

I'd like to learn more about this. I haven't heard of this option before. We use chemical densifiers (liquid applied) for concrete to seal at the microscopic level, and also to harden the surface in preparation for grinding and polishing. But it sounds like the stuff you are referring to must be different.

This is the most common over here, Fescotop:

Fescotop floor hardeners | Products | Fescon

And MasterTop is another common product, but a step up in price:

Concrete-Dry-Shakes-and-Floor-Toppings

Concrete-Dry-Shakes-and-Floor-Toppings

www.master-builders-solutions.basf.us

I'm not sure where to search to find local options best suited for you, but I'd say the best way is to discuss it with the company you've hired/will hire to do the concrete work for you, they will most likely have a product they're familiar working with, and that usually gets you the best result in the end.
I had my guys rub in the Fescotop F10 in the color "light grey" when they did the floor, could have left it like that but as you know I took it some steps further and had it ground/polished/sealed.

This is close to what it usually looks like if it's done properly and you leave it "as is", without going further with more steps:

Doesn't involve much cost to step it up just a little bit and have it ground down the tiniest bit (couple hours work) + a sealer and have the finished result look something like this:

To reach a true polished finish is where it gets expensive...

 

[Markos]

For the record, I recognize that laying down all that tile would be a chore, and it is highly unlikely that you or anyone would go that route. I'm just applying numbers to my "if I did it over again" discussion. It is likely that I will be building a garage next spring, so this is relevant to me. The slowest part of the process would be mixing the mortar. You know what goes into building homes obviously, but I'm not sure if you've done tile. Figure you have two cuts per row, plus if you want to perfectly center each ends then you would need to rip an entire row at a set width. With a 12" tile you have like 100 cuts, with each cut only happening ever 30 minutes to an hour, depending on how slow/fast you are. Then double that because you have transitions, corners and things. But for the most part, the bulk of your job is to throw down tiles in a big open space. I suppose I am just envious because all of my tile jobs are bathrooms with all sorts of funky annoying cuts on a substrate that needed a stupid amount of prep.

But even with the lowest cost porcelain tiles I can source at $4/sf, we're at roughly $4,000 plus mortar, plus a fair amount more time than a fluid applied solution. I'd guestimate $4.5k or so plus more of my time in the end. I love this idea for the look and durability, but not so keen on the cost.

Okay I know that your standards are high, but you can buy porcelain tile from a box store like home depot for less than half of that. You may not want it in your home, but in a garage it would just look like a very nice garage.

Pardon Our Dust

Although I've specified an absolute minimum pitch for drainage to the doors (as required by code), I anticipate that the floor will have a little bit of variation. Maybe it wouldn't affect a tile grid layout - maybe it would.

You have your architecture hat on. I meant flat, not level.

 

[autokunst]

I meant flat, not level.

And I still have little confidence in the trades up here and do not anticipate a "flat" floor, either. Still love the tile idea, though. It would look like a showroom in there!

 

[autokunst]

Okay I know that your standards are high, but you can buy porcelain tile from a box store like home depot for less than half of that.

I just read the rest of your post. I have laid tile - quite a bit. I have a wet saw, and a variety of other tools to accompany the activity. As for the big box tile, yeah I'm not sure I'd even put that in the garage. That inexpensive tile is quite thin and can be very brittle. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for. If I were to embark on the tile-the-garage project I would get a tile that is a little more robust than those options. Okay, I am a tile snob - I said it.

 

[Markos]

And I still have little confidence in the trades up here and do not anticipate a "flat" floor, either. Still love the tile idea, though. It would look like a showroom in there!

I'm curious about that as well. With e

I just read the rest of your post. I have laid tile - quite a bit. I have a wet saw, and a variety of other tools to accompany the activity. As for the big box tile, yeah I'm not sure I'd even put that in the garage. That inexpensive tile is quite thin and can be very brittle. I am a firm believer of you get what you pay for. If I were to embark on the tile-the-garage project I would get a tile that is a little more robust than those options. Okay, I am a tile snob - I said it.

Fair enough.. If you are a tile snob you should be an epoxy snob though. A DIY epoxy job done well still looks and lats like a DIY epoxy job.

I’ve never bought tile from home depot, but all of my tile is close out type style. The porcelain is about 3/8” thick. Happy to drop stuff on a piece of free tile if you feel like experimenting.

 

[autokunst]

If you are a tile snob you should be an epoxy snob though. A DIY epoxy job done well still looks and lats like a DIY epoxy job.

You are probably right. But I've seen the clowns that come out and install "professional" product. I don't think it is a slam dunk that a professional application will necessarily be better. Certainly easier for me, and likely more expensive. But I agree I need to look more closely at epoxy. Anyone use the U Coat It system? I've been reading threads on some other car forums (Corvette, Porsche, etc) and it seems every product has one supporter, and each thread mentions about a dozen products. So in the end, you have about 6 products that people didn't like, and about 6 products with one good reference each. Not very definitive input.

 

[CSteve]

You are probably right. But I've seen the clowns that come out and install "professional" product. I don't think it is a slam dunk that a professional application will necessarily be better. Certainly easier for me, and likely more expensive. But I agree I need to look more closely at epoxy. Anyone use the U Coat It system? I've been reading threads on some other car forums (Corvette, Porsche, etc) and it seems every product has one supporter, and each thread mentions about a dozen products. So in the end, you have about 6 products that people didn't like, and about 6 products with one good reference each. Not very definitive input.

You are probably right. But I've seen the clowns that come out and install "professional" product. I don't think it is a slam dunk that a professional application will necessarily be better. Certainly easier for me, and likely more expensive. But I agree I need to look more closely at epoxy. Anyone use the U Coat It system? I've been reading threads on some other car forums (Corvette, Porsche, etc) and it seems every product has one supporter, and each thread mentions about a dozen products. So in the end, you have about 6 products that people didn't like, and about 6 products with one good reference each. Not very definitive input.

Did Frank and Mies and Philip and Louie and that gang know they were designing "Cabins." Fill in those chinks and clean the chimney Ma, winter is a comin soon.

 

[adawil2002]

Dye the concrete. I did Terra Cotta Red. Then covered the knee wall with Quarry Tile. Outside we insulated and veneered the knee wall with stone.

 

[autokunst]

Dye the concrete. I did Terra Cotta Red. Then covered the knee wall with Quarry Tile. Outside we insulated and veneered the knee wall with stone.

Beautiful. Here again, very different project budget here. It is uncomfortable not to be able to build as I would for my clients.