Raven gets a new nest

[autokunst]

I spent a lot of time working on the garage this weekend. The arrangement I have with the electrician is that I will terminate all of the lighting. The problem with this relationship is that the electrician left all of the exterior lighting wiring in a very unresolved manner. This is after paying him a HUGE extra to wire extra lighting per my plan. This is the part that bothers me the most. Anyway, I spent some time reworking and sealing all of the exterior penetrations. Somewhere between the electrician and the builder, they have forgotten that the envelope of a building is a sealed skin - thermal, water, vapor, and air barriers need to remain intact.

There were a few other projects, but the big one was installing more fasteners in the drywall. I could tell there were at least two people doing the original "code minimum" fastener installation - there were different patterns. In some cases I only needed to add 2 or 3 screws per a 4' row. In other areas I added 4 or 5. All in, I added approximately 700 screws. I am SO happy that a few of you pushed my on this - this is 100% better than it was. Go ahead, look closely.

Another high point - I pulled a car in for the inaugural park.

 

[bluecoupe30!]

Now THAT'S a proper job, great work Stephen. Sleep well tonight!

 

[adawil2002]

Excellent & well done! Good thing you had that 5 pound box of screws. Hope your weather holds to complete the exterior siding.

 

[Bmachine]

Were all those holes in the ceiling created by the champagne bottle corks after that inaugural car park?

Well deserved, I say.

 

[mulberryworks]

I’m curious about the underlying issue with nailgun framing. Homes have been built with nails for hundreds of years. The sheer strength of nail is significantly stronger than a screw of equivalent size.

Really? I'd be interested to see your data on that. Most of what I see here in current construction is nail guns shooting smooth nails of rather small diameter or even smooth staples. Yes, rather long, but even extra length won't help when the guy putting the sheathing on your roof or walls is doing it one handed while talking on the phone and who knows how many time he misses the underlying support. Speed of install seems to be all that matters. Hand pounding beefy nails is a thing of the past.

If you are talking about the fact that a nail would have more metal than the core thickness of a screw, well then, I suppose you are right that the nail could be stronger but they are usually lower grade steel than quality screws and so the difference might not be that much. Since sideways sheer isn't the main concern but what we want is resistance to pulling out, screws have that all over any kind of nail.

Check out this video and see.

 

[Markos]

That test is interesting but not terribly applicable to real world scenarios. I’m sure that you have bent a nail driving it, then hammered it straight, only to drive it into the wood again. Screws don’t do that - they snap. In an earthquake, you don’t have a slow constant pressure applied to framing. The same goes for recurring heavy winds, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. Screws fatigue and fail. I can’t count how many screws I have sheared, but I have never sheared a nail. Some of the composite deck fascia screws are already snapping on my 3yo project.

Anyway, don’t take my word for it. Read your local building code. There is a reason why they specify nails, and why Any screws used for framing will be very expensive building grade. Like Simpson Strong Ties.

Now adding screws to stop squeaks and movement makes a lot of sense. I wish I drove more screws into my subfloor before I added hardwoods.

Really? I'd be interested to see your data on that. Most of what I see here in current construction is nail guns shooting smooth nails of rather small diameter or even smooth staples. Yes, rather long, but even extra length won't help when the guy putting the sheathing on your roof or walls is doing it one handed while talking on the phone and who knows how many time he misses the underlying support. Speed of install seems to be all that matters. Hand pounding beefy nails is a thing of the past.

If you are talking about the fact that a nail would have more metal than the core thickness of a screw, well then, I suppose you are right that the nail could be stronger but they are usually lower grade steel than quality screws and so the difference might not be that much. Since sideways sheer isn't the main concern but what we want is resistance to pulling out, screws have that all over any kind of nail.

Check out this video and see.

 

[dang]

Nice! Parking the car inside gives us a better sense of scale too. Impressive.

 

[autokunst]

Nice! Parking the car inside gives us a better sense of scale too. Impressive.

I know, not big enough...

 

[dang]

That test is interesting but not terribly applicable to real world scenarios. I’m sure that you have bent a nail driving it, then hammered it straight, only to drive it into the wood again. Screws don’t do that - they snap. In an earthquake, you don’t have a slow constant pressure applied to framing. The same goes for recurring heavy winds, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. Screws fatigue and fail. I can’t count how many screws I have sheared, but I have never sheared a nail. Some of the composite deck fascia screws are already snapping on my 3yo project.

Anyway, don’t take my word for it. Read your local building code. There is a reason why they specify nails, and why Any screws used for framing will be very expensive building grade. Like Simpson Strong Ties.

Now adding screws to stop squeaks and movement makes a lot of sense. I wish I drove more screws into my subfloor before I added hardwoods.

I explained this to a "Handyman" that the realtor hired to fix some floor beams on an old house I bought years ago. It was part of their negotiation for selling. I stopped by at lunch to see how things were going and crawled under the house to look at the progress (to his surprise). He had attached all of the patch 2x12 beams with 3-1/2" wood screws. I asked if those were holding them in place before adding nails and he thought I was joking. I took a scrap piece of wood and drove a nail part way in along with a screw halfway in and bent the screw over 90 deg and it snapped. It took about five full bends to break the nail. I told him I want nails holding up my floors.

It's all relative to sheer strength needed though. I use screws for a LOT of construction.

 

[autokunst]

It's all relative to sheer strength needed though. I use screws for a LOT of construction.

Maybe we should use nails on our cars...

Our structural engineer specifies everything in nail sizes, for what it's worth.

 

[bluecoupe30!]

This Forum never ceases to impress. I can learn so much here besides just how to keep my Coupe together. There have been movie reviews, discussion on how to "portage" a kayak to escape an impending harbour freeze up, some talk of de rigueur footwear, now this, engineering principles as applied to fasteners. Very interesting and helpful! I may have to draw the line if recipes appear, however.

 

[rsporsche]

makes me wonder if the garage doors had been taken up higher ... and therefore shorter transition into the garage. the thought being that if you put in a lift, the garage door where it is will interfere with the car up on a lift.

 

[JayWltrs]

Post-tornado studies show merely adding tie-down straps, overlap and additional top-plate nailings, double/extra-nailing córners, sub-floors & roofs substantially increase survivability. Engineer I used to work w took me to Home Depot & picked out about $100 of basic joist hangars, nails & metal connecting plates & told me where to nail them and where to add some nails. Took an afternoon. Said if folks would merely follow code + a little more wood & nails adds 25-30% protection. I kind of thought he was full of it, but NWS & FEMA apparently now focus as much on low-cost means, enforcing codes, training contractors, and maintenance as they do fundamental changes to construction techniques/materials.

 

[Markos]

It's all relative to sheer strength needed though. I use screws for a LOT of construction.

Same here. Lot’s of lag screws in my deck.

makes me wonder if the garage doors had been taken up higher ... and therefore shorter transition into the garage. the thought being that if you put in a lift, the garage door where it is will interfere with the car up on a lift.

I looked into this with my garage. Not because my ceilings are tall, but because they are low. I did mine myself and tucked mine as much as possible with a traditional opener. I looked into a jack shaft openers to give me an extra 8” or so, but they aren’t as quiet as the belt drives. I still cut several feet off of the opener bar, and cut the belt shorter.

At the time I had little ones sleeping above the garage and was very concerned about noise. I still do, I just don’t care about waking them up anymore.

Anyway, with a jack shaft opener and an HD torsion bar, you can regain a lot of space.

 

[autokunst]

makes me wonder if the garage doors had been taken up higher ... and therefore shorter transition into the garage. the thought being that if you put in a lift, the garage door where it is will interfere with the car up on a lift.

There are only two of three doors installed at the moment. These two are "re-used" from the original garage as I'd put them in just 4 years ago. We're waiting on the 3rd door (where the lift will go) because they had to special order the high bay track. It will be all the way up at the ceiling - no interference with a car on the lift.

 

[adawil2002]

We have the wall mount shaft drive Liftmaster openers. They are much quieter than the overhead chain or belt drive openers.

Any word on your lift?
I talked to Mitch, mine will ship after Thanksgiving.

 

[autokunst]

Any word on your lift?
I talked to Mitch, mine will ship after Thanksgiving.

I had one conversation with Mitch when he returned my initial call. I had to cut that call short (after about 10 minutes) because I was stepping into a meeting. Since, I've tried calling him, leaving numerous messages, and also sending the web form and several email messages - no response. I will be installing an ALI certified lift through Challenger/Quality.

 

[Markos]

Coming along great @autokunst! I love how we are telling a professional planner how to plan. Doesn’t look like you missed much.

We have the wall mount shaft drive Liftmaster openers. They are much quieter than the overhead chain or belt drive openers.

This depends on the application and wasn’t true in my case. Instead I bought a chamberlain whisper drive and isolated the motor with rubber mounts. Most garage door openers are noisy as he’ll though, especially the old chain ones.

 

[autokunst]

I love how we are telling a professional planner how to plan. Doesn’t look like you missed much.

The truth is, this always has been and remains a "budget" project. There are dozens of things I wish I had done, or that I "do on every other project I design". Of course, this little garage could have been a lot more amenity rich, and I will no doubt regret many decisions I've made along the way. But the original budget is already far exceeded, and compromises must continue to be made.

As for the openers, I completely agree that they are crazy loud - especially when mechanically attached to the living space. This building is isolated, and I don't care how loud the openers are. I already owned the two we installed. The "shop" door will not have an opener. Heck, I only plan to open that door once a millennium. (the day I bring the Raven project in, and the day I lay rubber pulling it out).

Speaking of compromises, while I am making them on the building, I don't plan on making them on the car. There will be no "GC" or subcontractors that I have to disagree with every morning. Only me - if I don't like what I did the day before, I can redo it.

 

[dang]

The truth is, this always has been and remains a "budget" project.

I'm going to tear out an old carriage door and replace it with a roll up door I bought on Craigslist for $150, then rebuild the outside walls and replace with siding I bought on Craigslist for $100.

Nothing will stop us!!! Bwaaa haa haa haa