TodB
Well-Known Member
I suggest that you reach out to the E28 crew also on mye28.com. Maybe some members there who would be interested also.
Stahl Headers
- Thread starter m5bb
- Start date
John,
depends on what cam you are using. korman recommends the 1 3/8" with a schrick 282 cam and 40 dcoes. if i remember correctly, they go with the 1 1/2 with the 45 dcoes and the schrick 304 cam ... and 1 5/8" on a race motor. i could be wrong.
the e28 uses a different header. pre '82 models use the model 11 header, for the e12 + e24.
guys, i started a discussion on the group buy into the parts forum.
TodB
Well-Known Member
Yep, I know they are different between E28 and E9 but an order is an order and they might include it as part of a group buy.
true, there is one minor problem - there are 2 different versions for 5 series (other than e12) ... and actually, there is a secondary e12 as well as e24 version (79 thru 82 1/2) the 12 + 12a. both include a "y" to go into a cat. the model 10 goes for a 533i (also fits 535i, 633csi + 635csi) ... then there's the model 9 which fits a 535i (unspecified year) ... both of these fit a cat.
that's enough to ruin my day and cause problems. so if we can get 6 here ... then that's what i want to do. in the mean time, i will ask Judy if they want to join in if it will help our numbers. if we get further, i will figure out the order scenario ... and hopefully get them to ship directly to the buyers - rather than paying to ship to me ... and then paying to ship to each buyer.
that's enough to ruin my day and cause problems. so if we can get 6 here ... then that's what i want to do. in the mean time, i will ask Judy if they want to join in if it will help our numbers. if we get further, i will figure out the order scenario ... and hopefully get them to ship directly to the buyers - rather than paying to ship to me ... and then paying to ship to each buyer.
I learned long ago that when opportunities like this for parts come up, that I need to take them. That having been said, I don't know squat about headers.
Ive got a stock 3.0 with 32/36. Why would I want headers ? Why wouldn't I want headers ? While I want the car to have a little growl, I would emphasis "little". Also, if I can ever master these DGEVs, Id be tempted to give triples a shot.
OK, that's it. What is your advise ?
Ive got a stock 3.0 with 32/36. Why would I want headers ? Why wouldn't I want headers ? While I want the car to have a little growl, I would emphasis "little". Also, if I can ever master these DGEVs, Id be tempted to give triples a shot.
OK, that's it. What is your advise ?
Same question here.
very sound comment, and question too, i am in (for the question)
I too am curious, and another question por favor, would the frame rail need to be notched to fit?
Thanks for spearheading this Scott.
Thanks for spearheading this Scott.
guys - good questions. i am probably not the best person to answer this - but i will give it a go.
my experience is that there are 3 things that really improve our engines. a cam, a header and triple DCOEs. (fuel injection systems aside) all of these things help the engine breathe better.
here are some things that i have learned
for better throttle response and torque, go with a smaller diameter primary tube (1 3/8"). if your primary goal is top end power, go with a larger diameter (track cars). but keep in mind, there is a lot more to dialing it all in for selection in your car to dial in power - i do know from my last 2002 w/ an extreme engine ... you do lose a lot of low end torque with the engine that is set up for top end power.
my experience is that there are 3 things that really improve our engines. a cam, a header and triple DCOEs. (fuel injection systems aside) all of these things help the engine breathe better.
here are some things that i have learned
for better throttle response and torque, go with a smaller diameter primary tube (1 3/8"). if your primary goal is top end power, go with a larger diameter (track cars). but keep in mind, there is a lot more to dialing it all in for selection in your car to dial in power - i do know from my last 2002 w/ an extreme engine ... you do lose a lot of low end torque with the engine that is set up for top end power.
OK, so how many horses can one gain from just headers assuming the rest of the exhaust system is stock?
Has anybody just removed the manifold and dyno'd a stock car with no backpressure at all to see what the upper bound is?
Has anybody just removed the manifold and dyno'd a stock car with no backpressure at all to see what the upper bound is?
no idea Arde,
don't care to guess - except not as much as advertizing would lead you to believe. i look at it as a platform to take advantage of future changes.
don't care to guess - except not as much as advertizing would lead you to believe. i look at it as a platform to take advantage of future changes.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. Running the engine with open exhaust ports will never give the best power, and you will burn the exhaust valves if you do it long enough.
There is a TON of misinformation on the internet about exhaust in general. Here's a link I posted at mye28, with actual testing done. Don't let the fact that it's a Chevy being tested throw you, the engine can't read the name on its valve cover.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0312_exhaust_pipes_test/viewall.html
its a good article ... thanks for posting Brian.
it gives some good comparative information about header styles in relation to motor. it also shows what a shorter tube does (moves the power higher up the revs), and what the bigger tube does - with a more aggressive engine design. it does show a significant increase of adding a header over a stock manifold - on the same engine. you need to consider where you want the power to be added to your car - mid range or high range. it makes a huge difference.
it gives some good comparative information about header styles in relation to motor. it also shows what a shorter tube does (moves the power higher up the revs), and what the bigger tube does - with a more aggressive engine design. it does show a significant increase of adding a header over a stock manifold - on the same engine. you need to consider where you want the power to be added to your car - mid range or high range. it makes a huge difference.
Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
One thing that isn't covered in the Car Craft article is the collector diameter. 1-5/8" 4-into-1 headers usually come with a 3" collector that is immediately necked down into a 2-1/2" pipe. Why would you have a 10" piece of 3" pipe right in a main scavenging area?
Jack Burns offers the following advice:
"One of the largest errors street enthusiasts make is in running too large of a primary pipe, and too large of a collector. For example, NHRA and IHRA Stock teams using Burns' headers in H/SA in traditional small-block powered musclecars are running 1.5-inch diameter primary pipes- much smaller than many street machines are trying to use."
Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0310phr_jack_burns_exhaust_manifold_header_tech/#ixzz2gh10Fb4U
My personal experience has been to run a 2-1/2" collector with a 1-5/8" primary tube to keep the gas velocity up. With this setup we produced 417 rwhp thru the muffs from a mild mannered 331" SBC. I also used 2-1/2" collectors on a daily driver 406" Nova that ran 11.70's @ 117 thru the muffs at Sacrament.
Ed Henniman of Headers by Ed has some very interesting notes on collector design.
http://www.headersbyed.com/hc_imphdrd.htm
Jack Burns offers the following advice:
"One of the largest errors street enthusiasts make is in running too large of a primary pipe, and too large of a collector. For example, NHRA and IHRA Stock teams using Burns' headers in H/SA in traditional small-block powered musclecars are running 1.5-inch diameter primary pipes- much smaller than many street machines are trying to use."
Read more: http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0310phr_jack_burns_exhaust_manifold_header_tech/#ixzz2gh10Fb4U
My personal experience has been to run a 2-1/2" collector with a 1-5/8" primary tube to keep the gas velocity up. With this setup we produced 417 rwhp thru the muffs from a mild mannered 331" SBC. I also used 2-1/2" collectors on a daily driver 406" Nova that ran 11.70's @ 117 thru the muffs at Sacrament.
Ed Henniman of Headers by Ed has some very interesting notes on collector design.
http://www.headersbyed.com/hc_imphdrd.htm
Mike,
also a very good article. (headers by ed). the comments regarding gas velocity increase vs decreasing due to tube diameter is worth noting.
also a very good article. (headers by ed). the comments regarding gas velocity increase vs decreasing due to tube diameter is worth noting.
Thanks, you spared me and my neighbors from a noisy experiment.
The first chart looks very promising, but it is a Chevy...
I like the idea of simulators, where can get one? I want to learn the intuition behind all this.
Does any sporty car come with headers in stock form?
if memory serves, the e30 m3 came with headers ... they sure weren't cast manifolds.
Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
Some early Camaros came with headers in the trunk...