chicane
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CSL Redo for Vintage Racing
- Thread starter lafngrvy
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Bertocchi
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First of all and most importantly do not get rid of the original tub for any reason.
Second IMHO finding a replacement tub that is not going to require similar if not more work is going to be very difficult. And if you did it would be expensive because it would be attached to a nice car?
By the time you dismantled the new car and did everything needed to build a new race car I do not think you will have saved any money at all.
If it were my car I would alter my time table and give myself the time needed to raise the funds to fix what I had.
Lastly I try not to confuse the phrase restoration with preservation. It may sound dramatic but I believe we have an obligation as enthusiasts to preserve what we can of these wonderful automobiles. Watching the new shows on Speed Channel convinces me that most restorers are just parts replacers. Where is the challenge in doing it that way?
David
Floors are wrinkled, tunnel is tweeked, and several panels now have wrinkles that did not have them before we straightened the tub. The right front frame horn has become detached- not sure why or how serious this is. Various other less serious issues.
Fortunately there is no rust problem, and the sag in the right rear corner is now gone. The tub is also now straight to factory specs.
@ David,
My first inclination is to save the existing tub if at all possible. I agree that starting with something else will probably be just as expensive, and perhaps more expensive then just preserving the tub I have.
As I said, it may come down to issues of safety. My wife can be very forceful on that subject.
chicane
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I would also try to keep the tub. First, you are building a race car so if constructed properly it is the cage that will protect you more than the tub. Consider that you are rebuilding a race-car not doing a concurs restoration.
But it does sound from that damage that you are describing that the car was hit from behind pretty hard.
I agree! This would would be were I would apply murphy's law. If you make this car show perfect and race it will get demo'ed! Seriously ,the cage if built corectly is going to put structure /rigidity into the car, and that's what will make it safe to race a flexey flier. My e12 has been sharked 3 times , only bruises were from the belts.( Im nota good driver) My concern though is what ruleset are you building to, can you really use the cage to tie up the chasis or are you stuck with a max , 6 point with two footwell, total of 8??
My cage ties into the rear subframe,the diff mount, all four shock towers, plus the normal 8pionts,, its a lot of bars, buts it really stiffened up a 30 year old BMW and is quite safe.
If you decide to look for another car , the guy I got mine from has another canidate, I could put you intouch with him , but its probally going to be more of the same??
good luck love your project
Bd #112
lafngrvy,
I'm sure you do know period correct very well, I was being sarcastic/silly in that my brother's is 'FAR' from being period correct. No offense intended.
We are very familiar with the big bore group out west since that's where they toss in the coupes. He's just building a surprise for 'em this year....;-) It's kinda crazy.
I hope we'll see you in June at Laguna, we should try to 'circle the wagons'.
-shanon
I'm sure you do know period correct very well, I was being sarcastic/silly in that my brother's is 'FAR' from being period correct. No offense intended.
We are very familiar with the big bore group out west since that's where they toss in the coupes. He's just building a surprise for 'em this year....;-) It's kinda crazy.
I hope we'll see you in June at Laguna, we should try to 'circle the wagons'.
-shanon
My hope and goal is to preserve the original tub.
I finally got some shots of the tub showing some of the issues we are dealing with. Once we straightened the tub to factory specs we had several wrinkled panels that were straight before. Floors, tunnel, and rear quarter panels seem to be the worst.
At this point I am researching what panels are available and their cost vs tubs that we can cannibalize. I am also planning on going over to Bend early next week to meet with the body shop guy to go over options and costs.
Here are some shots of what we are dealing with:
I finally got some shots of the tub showing some of the issues we are dealing with. Once we straightened the tub to factory specs we had several wrinkled panels that were straight before. Floors, tunnel, and rear quarter panels seem to be the worst.
At this point I am researching what panels are available and their cost vs tubs that we can cannibalize. I am also planning on going over to Bend early next week to meet with the body shop guy to go over options and costs.
Here are some shots of what we are dealing with:
chicane
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I didn't see anything that couldn't be patch repaired. It is certainly better than taking on a new basket-case that you are not familiar with. For some of those interior issues you don't have to worry so much about cosmetics. But for that rear quarter yeah you are going to have to locate a replacement panel or spend a lot of time reshaping the existing panel which will weaken it.
Looking at the two buckled tunnel points in the photos you would think that the differential mounting point just behind the rear seat back would have been pushed forward. The fore/aft distances of this mounting point are also to spec?
TJones02
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Shanon,
I know- period correct. But have you looked under the hood of some of the 'vintage' Mustangs and Cameros running here on the west coast?
Our target is the HMSA race at Laguna on June 22-23. If I make the T-Hill race it will probably be in my 1800 TiSA.
Sorry to hijack the thread... but that sounds great, I would love to see a Neue Klasse in action. I haven't seen any on the track since Monterey '96.
BTW, hi, my name is Tom and I work on 1800 TiSA #995184 owned by Pat deWitt in Sacramento CA, as well as my Dad and I will be freshening his 1800 TiSA #995183 for vintage racing in the next few years. We are currently investigating what it will take to rebuild the cars lost racing log book. I have two contacts that remember the car as raced in Northern CA between '65 and '69 by Heinz Eckhardt.
http://nkbmw.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1914
http://www.02forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=306
I remember the great pictures you posted on the old Neue Klasse board... What an impressive extensively prepared car you have there.
http://nkbmw.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
There are two recently started Neue Klasse forums. The first is as a part of the 2002FAQ and the second is based in England. Feel free to join.
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/option,com_forum/Itemid,57/page,viewforum/f,19//
http://www.02forum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=3ea8196de3e2a376f2007afa99a5b830
It would be great to meet you and see that wonderful Neue Klasse in action in March.
My father's other BMWs are...
'65 1800 TiSA #995183 owned since '88
'70 2800 Sedan owned since '78
'72 2002Tii #2760007 owned since new
'87 535is
'03 325iTa Mom's car
Cheers,
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Sven,
Yes, all the critical points under the car are within factory specs at this point. What you see in the pictures is as a result of pulling things straight.
I'm guessing that the car was hit in the rear pretty hard at some point in its racing career. It drove OK the three races I ran last summer with it, so whatever repairs were made at least did not overly affect the handling.
Still looking at options. Have located both a serviceable tub, and most of the sheet metal we need. I'll be meeting with the body guy early next week in Bend to plan what we will do.
@TJones- The 1800 is a sweet car. She is very well developed and a real joy to drive- great brakes and handling. If I 'cheat' and put the 2 liter motor in her she can keep up pretty well with most 2002's & Alfa GTV's. With the 1790 motor she terrorizes the 356's pretty well, despite her less the aerodynamic figure.
Here's a link to a YouTube video of her at the Portland Historics last summer. Things went really great until the stupid driver made a bone head error:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5oPus2QrG8
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After meeting with the body shop people and going over the tub I went ahead and ordered sheet metal to replace the bent and perforated pieces. With the help of the folks at CSi and BMW of SF I've got new floors, new trunk floors, rear quarter panels, and new rear valance winging their way to Bend. 2-3 weeks delivery time.
On the engine front, I received an update from Korman. Big valves, valve springs, titanium retainers, guides-all there. Engine builder will be building the head over the next week.
Rockers-Ray had a big order for the steel rockers, they added mine to it and are going to be able to use them instead of billet. They are in customs today.
New pistons and rods are ordered.
Next week they hope to get the headers underway.
On the engine front, I received an update from Korman. Big valves, valve springs, titanium retainers, guides-all there. Engine builder will be building the head over the next week.
Rockers-Ray had a big order for the steel rockers, they added mine to it and are going to be able to use them instead of billet. They are in customs today.
New pistons and rods are ordered.
Next week they hope to get the headers underway.
Bertocchi
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Sounds great! I will be interested in your opinion of the sheet metal you receive. I saw CSi's website and wondered about the quality?
Cheers, David
Cheers, David
bimmerboy73
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chicane
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More pics PLEASE!!!!
pj
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Dat purttey
Not a lot to update. Still waiting for panels from Germany.
Engine is progressing. The head is done. Other parts are arriving at Korman.
Will post more pictures as I can.
Engine is progressing. The head is done. Other parts are arriving at Korman.
Will post more pictures as I can.
Here is the latest update:
Car is at the body shop and work has begun in ernest. The sheet metal has begun to arrive- floor boards and rear valance are there, rear quarter panels and trunk pieces are in transit and should arrive in a week or two. I'm planning on heading over to Sisters next week to meet with the guy doing the work to make sure we are all on the same page.
Here is a link to their photo gallery if you'd like to follow their progress. It is updated fairly often:
http://www.redstonerestoration.com/apps/photos/
Below the CSL is my wife's 67 911S soft window Targa which they also did the body work on.
Car is at the body shop and work has begun in ernest. The sheet metal has begun to arrive- floor boards and rear valance are there, rear quarter panels and trunk pieces are in transit and should arrive in a week or two. I'm planning on heading over to Sisters next week to meet with the guy doing the work to make sure we are all on the same page.
Here is a link to their photo gallery if you'd like to follow their progress. It is updated fairly often:
http://www.redstonerestoration.com/apps/photos/
Below the CSL is my wife's 67 911S soft window Targa which they also did the body work on.