Got my 3.0cs but can`t find vin

[mrp]

I have just purchased a 3.0cs (european). I`ve started to restore it but bumped into a major problem. The VIN has been completely erased from the metal panel located near the windshield, next to the passenger`s side front shock absorver. One can still read both the initail and final "+" sign, but no numbers in the middle. I need this number in order to know what year it was manufactured, what is the original color, and other relevant information. The engine is an M30 but the number does not belong to a 3.0cs (according to realoem, it belongs to a 1976, 525cs). Is there another place where BMW engraved the VIN??? I live in Quito, Ecuador, where things like this are not unusual. In fact, the car is legaly registered under an invented VIN.

 

[Sven]

Missing a VIN should not matter much in your restoration. The cars are very similar through their build years. You may be able to read the back side of the punched numbers from the engine side of the metal firewall. I can barely make mine out from the backside. You may need to move the insulation that is along there first. Take a rubbing with pencil and paper.

There are some things you can check for that may narrow down the year: The fuel tanks changed in late 1973. Before that they were mounted from above, and after that, they were mounted from below. The clutch slave cylinder may also have changed in late 1973. The carburetors changed a bit in the US market over the years, probably less so in Europe.

Others on this board may have additional clues for you.

Good luck.

 

[D-jetronic]

HI

If engine has not been changed , you should have your VIN on it, left handside near the clutch housing.
Since I suppose -reading you-you don't have the original VIN plate, you still can have a clue, with the factory code ( square paper taped beneath the right rear passenger seat)
May be you'll find a 4 digits code- which should give you type and an interval of production year.
If you haven't any info , you'll have to search in the past !!
According to extras and equipment, you should find easilly-therefore- if it's pre or post end of 1973.

 

[D-jetronic]

ok, engine changed !!
sorry for my first advice !!!

 

[D-jetronic]

Me again

Send photos !!
BTW paint code is on the driver door frame on the Karmann label (2 digits)
Also written under the right rear seat.

 

[mrp]

Thanks guys for your response.

The vin was carefully erased from the firewall. We tried everything, but was impossible to see anything. I will check the fuel tank so I can see if it was mounted from above or below.

Equipmet: power windows (4), power mirror and A/C.

The Karman plate KUNSTHARZLACK code is 60. Is there a catalog or web page where I can see what color corresponds to this code???
I will check fot the label beneath the rear seat.
Thanks again to both of you.

 

[DJSimca]

for paint codes see here http://www.bmwcsregistry.org/Coupe_Information/e9paint.html

60 is (polaris) silver

 

[D-jetronic]

If you have power mirror (and if they are original), it's one of the last production years i.e 1974 and on.
(for info exactly same mirrors were installed on Citroen CX, and come much cheaper as used parts )
Can you guess whether it was a carb or injection originally ?.

 

[mrp]

Definitely carb. The engine has two zenith original carburetors.
No 3.0cs has stock power mirror???
I´m attaching a few pictures.

 

[mrp]

I´m attaching picture of the KARMAN plate. According to the link DJSimca sent me, the original color of the car is POLARIS/IMOLA SILVER.
It seems I have to entirely paint it in order to make it look 100% original.
Truth can be cruel some times.

 

[blumax]

Beliee your car may be a 1974

The driver side electric mirror became a factory option available on later U. S. models, perhaps earlier for Euro cars in the 1974 3.0 CS--your center grill is nalck and it appears your car is sitting on the 14" turbine wheels--all were included with 1974 model CS's

It appears your car is missing many external trim items--hope you have tham as those bits 'n pieces quickly add up in cost.

 

[mrp]

Thanks for the info, blumax. To be honest with you, I wasn't able to find the word "nalck" in the dictionary. So I didn't quite understand what you wanted to say about the center grill.
Gathering all the info in this thread, I can conclude my car is '74, (the fuel tank is mounted from below, power driver mirror).
Unfortunately there is no label underneath the rear (or front) seats.
Yes, I'm missing many exterior trim items. Does any body know where to look for them??? I tried bavauto and other well known web sites, but wasn't able to find them (side grills, rear L/R emblems, etc). Any tips are wellcome. Thanks.

 

[radosc]

There is a police technique for reading erased VIN numbers. That's why thiefs usually after erasing it will punch a new set of all numbers (111 then 222 than 333 and so on..) and erase it again. You need to have special lamp to see it and it is impossible to really "erase".

I'll check to see what kind of lamp is needed.

 

[Tundra]

If you are really concerned about the year of your car then here is another way of finding out. Remove the wood instrument cluster (speedo, clock etc), remove the plate behind wood instrument cluster. There are about 8 screws holding this plate to the wood. This is the plate with two very long bolts used to hold the instrument cluster to the car. Behind that plate, there is ALWAYS a stamp on the wood, usually blue, with the MONTH AND the year this wood part was made. That should tell you the year of your car. It is fairly rare that this wood piece would be changed by an owner. Once you know the year, it should narrow the vin # to a range for that year. Its a real pain to go through this process but if you are going to restore the car anyway then why not. Good luck.

 

[HB Chris]

Murray meant that your center kidney grille is Black which was used on `74 and later coupes, other than perhaps CSLs.

 

[roundel]

Hello All,
Has anyone considered the significance of the Karman number stamped behind the alloy plate on the door shut? I have seen a lot of these & have a list of the numbers I have seen set against known buld dates of the cars. It seems to be possible to date a car within a few months this way.
Does anyone know if there is a relation between the Karman number & the actual chassis number ?
I have a similar situation as I have a CSL used for track days where the bulkhead was removed to fit another engine. So I am trying to find out the original chassis number.

Alex

 

[mrp]

Andre, I was able to do what you recomended. The blue stamp on the back side of the wooden piece reads "26 juni 1974". So, as you well said, the car was made on those days or after. This issue was bodering me since I bought the car, and now I`m standing on solid ground. Thanks a lot.
There is one more thing I need to find out now. Since the engine does not belong to a 3.0cs, I'm wondering if the car is a CS or a CSI. Any clues on how to solve this question??? Thanks again

 

[Tundra]

Andre, I was able to do what you recomended. The blue stamp on the back side of the wooden piece reads "26 juni 1974". So, as you well said, the car was made on those days or after. This issue was bodering me since I bought the car, and now I`m standing on solid ground. Thanks a lot.
There is one more thing I need to find out now. Since the engine does not belong to a 3.0cs, I'm wondering if the car is a CS or a CSI. Any clues on how to solve this question??? Thanks again

Now you know the exact day of the month as well. You can now find out if it was a Monday, Friday etc. Hopefully its a tuesday or Wednesday. At least now you know that it wasn't made during "OktoberFest". You could have had a problem car. Concerning whether its a CS or CSi, there I can't help you. Although I have owned nothing but BMW's for the last 42 years, before anyone knew what a BMW was, I'm not an expert. As far as I know, the ONLY difference between a CS and CSi is that the CS has carburetors and the CSi is fuel Injected, hence the "i". If you install carburetors, then it is a CS although it may be an original CSi. If you install Fuel Injection, then you can correctly install a CSi badge on your car even if it was originally a CS. Everything else is exactly the same between the two versions. it is similar to the original 2002's and the later 2002 Tii's or the Bavaria and 3.OSi. Perhaps the more knowledgeable people on this panel can confirm or debunk what I said above and give you further assistance.

 

[bert35csi]

Martin,

More and more, I'm suspecting that your car is a 2.5 CS and not a 3.0 CS/CSi. The electric side mirror was feature on the late, late coupes as previously mentioned. Basically, most if not all of the 3.0's came with both left and right mirrors and the fact your car had only the driver's side kind of hints of a 2.5 CS, as these cars were essentially the less expensive stripped down models.

As I also stated in your other brake caliper/rotor thread, the presence of the solid rotors all around also indicates of your coupe being a 2.5 CS. The 3.0's were all equipped with ventilated rotors both front and rear.

Many years ago, I vaguely recall through an unknown source that somewhere underneath the car, there maybe an area where the vin # was stamped, can't remember exactly where this is at though. Fact or fiction, kind of hard to say. Suggest you contact Carl Nelson, the coupe guru for further assistance to your vin # hunt. www.bimmerdoc.com

 

[Tundra]

To BERT 35 CSI. Your answer above should be directed to MRP who started this thread. Also, I'm not convinced of your mirror theory. I have a 72 3.0cs which did not have a passenger side mirror. I recently added it on. I'm not the original owner so it's possible the door was replaced years ago although I doubt it. The condition of that door is similar to the right door. Again, you could be very right.