The end is near....SCOTTeVEST's Baby

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Scott,

i did some research on this not too long ago (january) while looking at a ceylon coupe. this may have changed slightly, but not much. i have attached a pdf which is broken down by the section. these are the NON-VAT prices.
 

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zinz said:
get yourself an inspection camera. They are relatively cheap (<$150 ?)
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The ones that connect to you Android or Apple phone are very reasonable, and you can take pictures of what you are seeing. They seem to run between $15 and $50 dollars, and give you a very long leader. I (over)paid around $40. The one I bought is from Depstech, I think...
 
Stick with your plan Scott. Going after the rust is not a “while you are in there” proposition. It is a completely different scope of work. It takes most e9 restoration shops more than your quoted 36 hours to rebuild the rockers. If you only did that, you still wouldn’t be doing “enough”. Yup - more scope creep. You can’t pull the front fenders off, mitigate rust and weld them back on in that 36 hour window. Blasting the car would reveal all the rust, and would be another $1K+ in Idaho. Don’t forget disassembly and assembly of *everything. Then you are left with a car that would need to be filled and blocked everywhere just to get it back to the smooth surface that you have right now.

Don’t think for a minute that there aren’t hundreds of member cars with rust similar to yours. Their cars look nice and they are enjoying them. They just keep to themselves in a thread like this while a handful of members are advocating a bare metal restoration.

I mean no disrespect to the good intentions of those who responded. Your recommendations are sound, but not right-sized for the everyone. I’m going down that painful bare metal path eventually but like Scott I’m taking my time. I like to drive my car even if I can see the road between my feet.
 
Markos said:
Stick with your plan Scott. Going after the rust is not a “while you are in there” proposition. It is a completely different scope of work. It takes most e9 restoration shops more than your quoted 36 hours to rebuild the rockers. If you only did that, you still wouldn’t be doing “enough”. Yup - more scope creep. You can’t pull the front fenders off, mitigate rust and weld them back on in that 36 hour window. Blasting the car would reveal all the rust, and would be another $1K+ in Idaho. Don’t forget disassembly and assembly of *everything. Then you are left with a car that would need to be filled and blocked everywhere just to get it back to the smooth surface that you have right now.

Don’t think for a minute that there aren’t hundreds of member cars with rust similar to yours. Their cars look nice and they are enjoying them. They just keep to themselves in a thread like this while a handful of members are advocating a bare metal restoration.

I mean no disrespect to the good intentions of those who responded. Your recommendations are sound, but not right-sized for the everyone. I’m going down that painful bare metal path eventually but like Scott I’m taking my time. I like to drive my car even if I can see the road between my feet.
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Scott, I agree with Markos. I am one of those, "hundreds of member cars with rust." I have no idea whether it is more or less than yours, but I have rust! Although mine is an Italian euro coupe, I am sure it was driven in the rain by PO's. I bought it 25 years ago. About 20 years ago I had it painted in the original Polaris, most of the chrome, etc off, sanded, primed and painted. Nothing else. Surprise, it had been painted before!!! Cost then: $4,000. Since then I have driven it in the rain, on and off the track. "Always garaged" is meaningless. I have always garaged it but who knows before me.

Honestly, not a single bubble yet. But who knows what lurks in its heart. I have had 25 years of pure pleasure. Who could ask for more.

Finally, for your reading pleasure, here is the story I read. "Story, myth?" Members, chime in here. The shells were placed on open freight cars after Kharmann was finished doing their magic. Shipped to the factory for final assembly, they sat outside until needed. So if the story is true, the rust began well before they left the factory.

Steve
 
Ok, this is what I found out by looking over a HUGE stack of old records from the prior owner.

  • I am the third owner. First owner, Bert Ladd in Denver, from new in 1974 until 1982. Purchased by Jim Cordell in 1982 and had until I purchased, in June of 2011.
  • I found letters and receipts indicating that in Jan of 1986 the car was painted, new color black from brown, with bodywork and rust proofing (total $8,000 specifically including $1500 in rustproofing sunroof) and interior work done $2500 for new hides for seats and headliner in 86 dollars.
  • TONS of records from 1982-2011 with pretty much everything that required attention being replaced/repaired as needed, including new driveline and transmission.
  • I have not kept solid records from my ownership, but by reviewing this forum I can reconstruct what I have done to the vehicle, which is pretty much feels like everything or a lot until I look back at what the prior owner did.
So, in sum, my point in part was that the prior owner had the car painted a new color and dealt with rust issues in 1986, and until just very recently you could not see any evidence on exterior of rust. That's 22 years!!! If I get 1/2 that time from this paint job, I will be satisfied, so long as we do everything we ought to do within reason to ensure we stop the rust.

I live in what is called high desert area with extremely low humidity, very dry air, with not much rain, so that should help to preserve things I hope. I am going to painter later and will post the video as usual. I will ask about the rust tool referenced above. Thanks.

Scott
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OMG.... Wow... Just came from the painter. Got an education. NO WAY am I going to do full restore, yet as you can see it would benefit from it. They estimated $30-60k at minimum to do it right. I had no idea all this rust was underneath. I imagine this is what most of the cars that have not been fully restored, bar metal, look like underneath. I had NO idea it looked like this underneath.

I will stay the course, and have a nice drive for ~10years then re-evaluate, but likely end up buying a fully restored version for $150k+ then, in the meantime I will invest the $50k I am saving now in the market and then be ahead.

Thoughts?

 
Wow! Well...not that unexpected I must say.

I concur to a point w/your body man, however, I would go ahead and fix the rockers COMPLETELY. Do the inners as well as the outers.

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teahead said:
Wow! Well...not that unexpected I must say.

I concur to a point w/your body man, however, I would go ahead and fix the rockers COMPLETELY. Do the inners as well as the outers.

WP_000198_zpsa2b9092e.jpg
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Is that an easy thing to do? Is it just a matter of ordering parts?


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Not easy, but he's right there anyways. Instead of welding in a bunch of patches, order actual W&N replacements. However, really should have him tear into it all more to access the real rust damage.
 
I know someone else already pointed out to check the rear-axle mounting points, but I can’t find that post now.
And I’d like to second that, it’s the only two points that holds the rear axle in place (except for the diff bushing). So it’s very important for safety reasons.

Look closely at these areas on both sides:

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20BB1CBA-5BC7-4B49-8EBC-7AAFD079F326.jpeg
 
With all due respect, an experienced fab shop can replace the outer and inner rockers in less than 36 hours.
 
Scott
Sorry to see how rusty your car actually is. Worse than I'd hoped for, having been a dry region car. You've got the classic inner front fender rust so common in these cars. With the Lokai fender liners you can minimize the spread in the front fenders (but not stop it). I agree w others that your inner rockers are likely pretty bad, but ts ok to just patch the outers for now. I'll bet your car was mostly rust free when you bought it. The design of these bodies simply promotes retension of mud and water, which leads to rust. That's why folks say don't drive when wet. Once a coupe is fully redone from bare metal its a different story, where water is no longer a problem. Until I have Mario do my coupe, my solution is to own an alloy car that doesn't rust and save the E9 for sunny days.
 
charofire said:
With all due respect, an experienced fab shop can replace the outer and inner rockers in less than 36 hours.
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You certainly aren’t hurting my feelings. I’m curious
though, are you basing this off of experience? I ask because a very competent shop on the east
coast spent significantly more than 36 hours on a member’s rockers. I’m not sure if the inner rockers were done. I’m talking about the real inner
portion of the three section rockers, not the structural center section that everyone keeps referring to as the inners. I was taken aback
by the figure, but looking at @‘69 2800 cs ‘s rocker
thread, I see at least 15 - 20 hours of work on each side.
 
charofire said:
With all due respect, an experienced fab shop can replace the outer and inner rockers in less than 36 hours.
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Totally depends on how far gone/in what shape everything around the rockers themself are. If there is rust creeping up the bottom of the A-pillar, bottom of B-pillar and up the front of the rear wheelhousing, I have a strong feeling that it’ll be very hard to do it ”the right way” in less than 36h.
 
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