The end is near....SCOTTeVEST's Baby

[Belgiumbarry]

now, without choosing sides, wasn't the paint job 8k and all surplus rust repair and mechanical stuff ? as so , the final paint must be viewed as a 8k job . I don't know what you guys may expect from that nowadays. I suspect , if you really want "new" all around , i see here members talking about 30...50k paint jobs.....???

get the sunroof painted and… "let it go " Scott and drive it , you soon will have more scratches on it then you now find with glasses….

 

[scottevest]

now, without choosing sides, wasn't the paint job 8k and all surplus rust repair and mechanical stuff ? as so , the final paint must be viewed as a 8k job . I don't know what you guys may expect from that nowadays. I suspect , if you really want "new" all around , i see here members talking about 30...50k paint jobs.....???

get the sunroof painted and… "let it go " Scott and drive it , you soon will have more scratches on it then you now find with glasses….

you are sort of correct but there was not mechanical stuff per se, other than install new suspension, most of the added stuff was rust remediation generally. Some of the imperfections are unacceptable and sure he will take care of them. Example vehicles that he showed me in black had no visible imperfections at all. Benny says this is part of the project and he will make it right, or so he says. But really interested in others opinions after watching the video. This was never intended to be a show car, but it was supposed to be a VERY nice paint job.

 

[Belgiumbarry]

Ok Scott , have it your way …. but , you hoped to drive it on a race circuit ? ok , not race it … but still … that front paint would be all damaged and perhaps a new windshield needed…..

 

[scottevest]

Ok Scott , have it your way …. but , you hoped to drive it on a race circuit ? ok , not race it … but still … that front paint would be all damaged and perhaps a new windshield needed…..

Dude, whether I intended to take it on a few laps on a track is irrelevant to this discussion. Not sure where that comes in? Any way, not tracking it other than perhaps a parade lap.

 

[JFENG]

Ok Scott , have it your way …. but , you hoped to drive it on a race circuit ? ok , not race it … but still … that front paint would be all damaged and perhaps a new windshield needed…..

In my experience the front won’t see much damage from track days unless Scott tailgates other cars (acceptable on a track) a lot. Even if he does you can get temporary clear protective films that you take off after the track day. Just check with Benny about when it’s safe to use such temporary films.

 

[JFENG]

Have autozone check your battery health. If Benny let it sit for 6 months in a discharged state it may have lost some capacity.

Are you sure it’s charging up?

 

[scottevest]

Have autozone check your battery health. If Benny let it sit for 6 months in a discharged state it may have lost some capacity.

Are you sure it’s charging up?

I am sure when I charge it, it gets charged, but seems to loose the charge quickly esp if i use ac. I noticed the red light on the dash, which i didn't know what it was but read the manual and it is battery power. So clearly something is up. Not sure if i should just buy a new battery, and/or have the alternator checked out. It is a fairly new battery and I think under warranty if I saved the paper work.

Unrelated: does anyone know how the front seatbelts are attached to the rear passenger wood strips? If you can take a picture, i'd appreciate it. Gary forgot to attach and need details. Found this image, but can't tell precisely what is used to attach?

 

[restart]

Well....since you asked...
I find it unreasonable that you call it a 25k paint job. Most of the original comments in this thread were that it was unreasonable to even expect an 8k$ job. And that you should go to an expert in this type of car.
I also found it unreasonable to see you go in the shop every other day pushing and adding stuff and imposing deadlines and giving technical advice...and now you are upset because the paint job was rushed?
But that’s what make the videos so entertaining, keep em coming

 

[scottevest]

Well....since you asked...
I find it unreasonable that you call it a 25k paint job. Most of the original comments in this thread were that it was unreasonable to even expect an 8k$ job. And that you should go to an expert in this type of car.
I also found it unreasonable to see you go in the shop every other day pushing and adding stuff and imposing deadlines and giving technical advice...and now you are upset because the paint job was rushed?
But that’s what make the videos so entertaining, keep em coming

WOW> If you watched my videos, there was NO rushing the paint job whatsoever, and no claim that the paint job was rushed at all. Really? Show me the video where I am standing in the booth over Benny saying hurry that paint job even if there will be issues. In fact, quite the opposite, you can find me saying many times saying don't rush to jeopardize quality.
They told me initially it would be done in 6 weeks or so. Yes, I was interested in when it would be done. Nothing about the painting or preparing for the paint was rushed by me, but perhaps the results indicate otherwise, but blaming me that the imperfections were a result of me stopping in once a week during that phase to say hi and document things is not the cause of these issues. Sorry. Might be nice for you to think so, but just not the case at all. I am sorry you found it unreasonable for my visits. Benny and Gary clearly did not. They told me many times how much they enjoyed it and asked me to send videos to them to show their family. They also want me to document the next coupe coming their way as a result. Also, I never imposed deadlines, just inquired. Also, technical advise came from all of you, not me, and was often requested and truly needed and appreciated, although unfortunately not always followed. @restart i don't mind your thoughts, but get your facts straight, or just stay silent....

PS: i am glad you were entertained and misinformed....

 

[vince]

I've said it before, I think showing up all of time with video running is unreasonable. I highly doubt that Benny and his crew enjoyed that, especially on such regular basis. I definitely believed you rushed them. Go back and watched your own videos, you asked about meeting timelines in almost all of them.

That fact that you won't take on some of these little items yourself really bugs me. Half of the joy of owning these beautiful cars is working on them with you own hands, it's very gratifying.

 

[scottevest]

I've said it before, I think showing up all of time with video running is unreasonable. I highly doubt that Benny and his crew enjoyed that, especially on such regular basis. I definitely believed you rushed them. Go back and watched your own videos, you asked about meeting timelines in almost all of them.

That fact that you won't take on some of these little items yourself really bugs me. Half of the joy of owning these beautiful cars is working on them with you own hands, it's very gratifying.

Glad you feel the need to repeat what you have said before. The thing is that you were wrong then and you are wrong now, again, and I'd appreciate you keeping your opinions to yourself. Yes, every video I would ask about timelines, as they are important especially when promises are made. Perhaps in your world timelines and promises are meaningless, but not in mine. When someone tells me that something is likely to get done by a date certain, unless new things arise, I expect that date to be held. In this case, new things arose, and thus timeline slid, but never did I enforce a timeline regardless of how it would impact the quality of the work done.

As far as doing things with my own hands and the joy of doing things and owning things by spending my free time on doing so, that is your opinion. Frankly, the joy to me is driving and owning this car and spending time with my family. That's my choice. I'd rather be climbing mountains than tinkering with my cars and paying someone else who is good at that to do while providing a nice living to someone. Here's my climbing a mountain earlier today:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=499975557128270

I do find it gratifying to wash/wax detail the car, but I am not mechanically inclined, so are you saying that I am not allowed to own this car? I don't understand your logic, but it is equally consistent, read illogical. I can understand how working on cars can be gratifying to someone that is mechanically inclined, for sure, but it can be extremely aggravating if you are not so, and for you to be "bugged" by this is simply ridiculous and judgmental, and frankly disgusting. @vince I would sincerely appreciate if you would keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, and spend your time judging how people choose to spend their time and money in your real world face to face and see how people respond to you in person. I know what I would do if someone said to me face to face what you are writing now.

This thread is getting tiring to me with these comments. I would kindly ask that anyone else that feels a need to tell me something that simply isn't true or be judgmental about the way I spend my money and my time, please refrain from doing so. There is no benefit to anyone.

I was taught me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Perhaps you missed that important life lesson. Now, if you have some constructive criticism, bring it on, but this is far from constructive.

Now, bug off and then you won't be so bugged by me not working on my car myself. Wow.... I really can't believe you put this in writing: "That fact that you won't take on some of these little items yourself really bugs me." Just wow.

 

[autokunst]

I was trying to sit on the sidelines, but since this thread is all about constructive comments I had to jump in. I honestly believe @Belgiumbarry and @restart are being constructive. Can't say the same for telling them to bug off. They are accurately pointing out some of how this journey unfolded. Speaking only for myself, it is pretty clear from all of the documentation herein that the consensus was that it was unrealistic to expect a shop to correctly disassemble, provide a quality repaint, and reassemble a coupe for $8k. Either that or you were getting the deal of the century (by at least a factor of 3). Come to learn that they were in over their heads a bit (nice, very tolerant guys, but inexperienced with these cars). Add to that countless aspects of additional scope creep, either as discovered on the car by the shop or pointed out by your expert panel of people more experienced with these specific cars here (not me). The additional rust work, the extent of re-work needed for the bumpers (can't recall if those were part of the 8k or not), the polishing of all the exterior trim, changing various components including lighting, wheels, suspension, lowering the car, renewing/refinishing some of the interior, pulling and replacing the wood dash - I'd list more if I went through the 70 pages of the thread. All of this additional scope overwhelmed this inexperienced shop, imho. Yes - you received an $8k paint job at best (closer to a $4k paint job if the bumper replacement was part of the original proposal). All of the additional time spent on widgets and bits is what drove the cost up to $25k (or wherever you are at). As far as the frequent visits and video taping goes, I don't think anyone here can definitively state that Benny's guys appreciated or didn't care for that experience. Certainly many of us were entertained by it and, more important, allowed folks with more knowledge to see things that helped the shop (and ultimately you). But I can tell you that for me personally, I felt like the frequent visits would add duress and schedule pressure on the project regardless of the words you said while there. But again, you own the relationship with these guys - not this group. In the end, I am not at all surprised that you are having a long punch list of concerns. In some respects, I am almost surprised the list isn't longer. There are probably dozens of little things that will never be returned to how they were, as evidenced by the examples you list most recently the seat belt hardware. Frankly, I think it is almost a miracle the car is driving down the road turning heads at this point. Again, that's just my opinion and written here with the intent of adding perspective and constructive feedback on this process. Please don't tell me to bug off, too. And best of luck getting all of the nuts. bolts, wires, and switches back to correct. I wouldn't sweat the paint flaws at this price point.

 

[scottevest]

I was trying to sit on the sidelines, but since this thread is all about constructive comments I had to jump in. I honestly believe @Belgiumbarry and @restart are being constructive. Can't say the same for telling them to bug off. They are accurately pointing out some of how this journey unfolded. Speaking only for myself, it is pretty clear from all of the documentation herein that the consensus was that it was unrealistic to expect a shop to correctly disassemble, provide a quality repaint, and reassemble a coupe for $8k. Either that or you were getting the deal of the century (by at least a factor of 3). Come to learn that they were in over their heads a bit (nice, very tolerant guys, but inexperienced with these cars). Add to that countless aspects of additional scope creep, either as discovered on the car by the shop or pointed out by your expert panel of people more experienced with these specific cars here (not me). The additional rust work, the extent of re-work needed for the bumpers (can't recall if those were part of the 8k or not), the polishing of all the exterior trim, changing various components including lighting, wheels, suspension, lowering the car, renewing/refinishing some of the interior, pulling and replacing the wood dash - I'd list more if I went through the 70 pages of the thread. All of this additional scope overwhelmed this inexperienced shop, imho. Yes - you received an $8k paint job at best (closer to a $4k paint job if the bumper replacement was part of the original proposal). All of the additional time spent on widgets and bits is what drove the cost up to $25k (or wherever you are at). As far as the frequent visits and video taping goes, I don't think anyone here can definitively state that Benny's guys appreciated or didn't care for that experience. Certainly many of us were entertained by it and, more important, allowed folks with more knowledge to see things that helped the shop (and ultimately you). But I can tell you that for me personally, I felt like the frequent visits would add duress and schedule pressure on the project regardless of the words you said while there. But again, you own the relationship with these guys - not this group. In the end, I am not at all surprised that you are having a long punch list of concerns. In some respects, I am almost surprised the list isn't longer. There are probably dozens of little things that will never be returned to how they were, as evidenced by the examples you list most recently the seat belt hardware. Frankly, I think it is almost a miracle the car is driving down the road turning heads at this point. Again, that's just my opinion and written here with the intent of adding perspective and constructive feedback on this process. Please don't tell me to bug off, too. And best of luck getting all of the nuts. bolts, wires, and switches back to correct. I wouldn't sweat the paint flaws at this price point.

I have no problem with the way you voiced your opinions here, and thank you for taking the time to articulate them in such a respectful fashion. To be clear, although some or most of you thought that the videos and my weekly then more often visits were disruptive, that is not what Benny and Gary told me to my face when the camera was off. I often would ask if they cared, and they said no. Both have become good friends through this process. I get it though. I am surprised they allowed me to do so. Most people would have felt a bit uncomfortable, but they trusted me and had fun with it.

As far as the quality of paint, etc. for the price, not sure what to say as I have not had a car painted before. The $8500 did include the bumper installation, so the paint work, including assembly etc. likely costs $6000 or so after all. I did offer and did pay additional money for the bumper even though not contractually obligated to do so. I thought it was the right thing to do.

I'd like to wait and see what is done with my list before jumping to conclusions. I am hopeful he will make it right. It is important to note that Benny was HIGHLY recommended by someone who had him do concourse level restorations of very valuable Porsche's, so he clearly is capable of great work on complicated cars.

I know that everyone here thinks these cars are much more complicated than other period cars, but frankly, I'm not so sure, and think the issues that I have presently have zero to do with anything about an e9 at all but rather whether enough care was taken in the painting process itself to ensure that dirt and imperfections are not getting under the paint, together with taking the time to keep track of the parts and ensuring that everything is put back with due care. Other than installing the bumper, throughout this entire process, there is nothing that was so complicated from my perspective and I imagine Benny's either. It's just like anything else: you need to take the time when doing something to keep track of things and do it right. Chasing parts and identifying things was a pain in the ass, but all of you and me did that hard work. Proper planning too could have simplified things. At the start, we should have identified all the parts needed for the repaint, e.g. seals, etc. rather than ordering one at a time. That along with sending the chrome work for polishing at the get-go once taken off would have helped too. Much was made here about the belt trim, which didn't turn out to be an issue at all, although time will tell.

They frequently pointed to the Mustang from the same time period that was painted black and said my car would look like that, in terms of paint quality. I will need to look more carefully at that car to compare, but I didn't see the imperfections in that car that I have seen in mine.

I showed the car in person to the person who recommended me to Benny to begin with, and he said unequivocally for the price the things I have pointed out should be taken care of, and per Benny will. He told me that this is normal. I will have a list and he will go through it.

So, let's sit tight and see what happens. I suspect some areas of my concern will be met with hesitation, but hope and expect that most will be resolved to my satisfaction and all will be well. Then, when he gets the next coupe mentioned previously that is on the way, we shall see if he wants me to periodically video updates for fun and ask you guys for advice here and there. He seemed in real life to appreciate that.

Of course I will not tell you to "bug off," since you didn't judge how I spend my time by not wanting to tinker with my car. That was out of line, as well as supplanting my judgment on videos and visits with yours.

Just saying.... Stay tuned....

Now, does anyone know if there is a legit reason for my battery to drain only after using AC vs. not?

 

[scottevest]

So, I fully charge the battery last night but the indicator light is still red. Any ideas on what could be causing this?

 

[JFENG]

Light indicates low voltage (I assume this is with the engine running).
Basically, your alternator is not charging your battery.
Using the AC means you're using the electric fans (condenser and squirrel cage), which is a BIG electrical draw.
After a short drive the battery has been run down too far to run the starter motor.

Check to make sure there's not a loose or broken wire in the alternator/regulator circuit.
Seems unlikely the voltage regulator or alternator failed because the car was in the bodyshop for 6 months.

If no problems are found with the wiring, then:
Check the output on the alternator (eg input to the voltage regulator). It should be above 14 volts at idle.
Check the function of the voltage regulator. It should be above 13 volts at idle.

 

[scottevest]

Light indicates low voltage (I assume this is with the engine running).
Basically, your alternator is not charging your battery.
Using the AC means you're using the electric fans (condenser and squirrel cage), which is a BIG electrical draw.
After a short drive the battery has been run down too far to run the starter motor.

Check the output on the alternator (eg input to the voltage regulator). It should be above 14 volts at idle.
Check the function of the voltage regulator. It should be above 13 volts at idle.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I will have this checked out tomorrow before bringing it to Benny to do the punch list work. Do you suspect it is a problem with the battery or the alternator or both?

 

[JFENG]

Guys,
IMHO, the challenges on this project were mainly
(1) Constant scope creep, which is typical of light restorations where the more you do the more you find needs to be done.
(2) Shop with little to now experience with E9's, and also with
(2a) Seemingly little desire to become E9 experts - Scott had to go find all the info on many many things
(2b) Shop without strong mechanical expertise. In contrast, a shop like VSR1 can do any level of body restoration but Mario also has a top class mechanical shop that can do anything from a belt change to a full-on custom race motor build. This means he has IN-HOUSE expertise at E9's in all areas other than interiors (which he has done by trusted subcontractors). Mario has invested the time and $$$ to become an expert so things get done right and get done efficiently.

Timing: the problem with scope creep is, in my opinion, this.
(1) Shops need to schedule work in advance to keep their employees and shop busy.
(2) When a small project comes in the shop manager will make space in the schedule with a little wiggle room. But other projects will get booked into the schedule around assumptions as to when the simple job will be done.
(3) as the simple job grows and grows, it can screw up their schedule for other booked business.
(4) What sometimes happens is that the project that started simple is now slowing down because other customers with promised start dates have brought in their cars and expect their work to get started. The shop is now spreading more work across their same capacity, meaning everyone's project is going slower.
(5) If the total scope of Scotts project were known from the beginning, I think Mario could have finished it in 2-3 months, done a much higher quality job, and had little to no need for the owner to chase anything down.

 

[JFENG]

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I will have this checked out tomorrow before bringing it to Benny to do the punch list work. Do you suspect it is a problem with the battery or the alternator or both?

I think you have some loose or broken wiring. Voltage regulators most often fail in a way that overcharges a battery. Looks like you have the opposite problem. If you know where your VR is and have a volt meter, you can run this problem down yourself.

 

[restart]

So, I fully charge the battery last night but the indicator light is still red. Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Scott, IMO asking questions like this shows a great disrespect for YOUR forum and YOUR guys. Take some time to read the owners manual and use the search function and try to answer your own questions.

 

[restart]

Seriously?
View attachment 49118
“

Glad you feel the need to repeat what you have said before. The thing is that you were wrong then and you are wrong now, again, and I'd appreciate you keeping your opinions to yourself. Yes, every video I would ask about timelines, as they are important especially when promises are made. Perhaps in your world timelines and promises are meaningless, but not in mine. When someone tells me that something is likely to get done by a date certain, unless new things arise, I expect that date to be held. In this case, new things arose, and thus timeline slid, but never did I enforce a timeline regardless of how it would impact the quality of the work done.

As far as doing things with my own hands and the joy of doing things and owning things by spending my free time on doing so, that is your opinion. Frankly, the joy to me is driving and owning this car and spending time with my family. That's my choice. I'd rather be climbing mountains than tinkering with my cars and paying someone else who is good at that to do while providing a nice living to someone. Here's my climbing a mountain earlier today:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=499975557128270

I do find it gratifying to wash/wax detail the car, but I am not mechanically inclined, so are you saying that I am not allowed to own this car? I don't understand your logic, but it is equally consistent, read illogical. I can understand how working on cars can be gratifying to someone that is mechanically inclined, for sure, but it can be extremely aggravating if you are not so, and for you to be "bugged" by this is simply ridiculous and judgmental, and frankly disgusting. @vince I would sincerely appreciate if you would keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself, and spend your time judging how people choose to spend their time and money in your real world face to face and see how people respond to you in person. I know what I would do if someone said to me face to face what you are writing now.

This thread is getting tiring to me with these comments. I would kindly ask that anyone else that feels a need to tell me something that simply isn't true or be judgmental about the way I spend my money and my time, please refrain from doing so. There is no benefit to anyone.

I was taught me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Perhaps you missed that important life lesson. Now, if you have some constructive criticism, bring it on, but this is far from constructive.

Now, bug off and then you won't be so bugged by me not working on my car myself. Wow.... I really can't believe you put this in writing: "That fact that you won't take on some of these little items yourself really bugs me." Just wow.