4310316 begins

[tferrer]

Some of the advice has been to rebuild his engine. There have been LOTS of opinions on this thread.

Rebuild his engine? The same S38 that was already rebuilt and never got running? Post that, he doesn't have an engine TO rebuild. The wise minds on here have predominantly opined "buy a running car and swap the motor". At least that's what I've heard 30-40 times. Based on the long history of this car and its issues, anything other than swapping in a known entity is just introducing another set of variables. At this point take the path of highest probability of a positive outcome...

 

[Markos]

Rebuild his engine? The same S38 that was already rebuilt and never got running? Post that, he doesn't have an engine TO rebuild. The wise minds on here have predominantly opined "buy a running car and swap the motor". At least that's what I've heard 30-40 times. Based on the long history of this car and its issues, anything other than swapping in a known entity is just introducing another set of variables. At this point take the path of highest probability of a positive outcome...

You only read that because I posted it 30 or 40 times. I’ve really only been the one suggesting to buy a running car. For many it would be a waste of money, but if @aearch doesn’t have access (for one reason or another) to good mechanic, I think it is a great DiY option that takes many mysteries out of the equation.

Many other people have suggested buying a B35 long block. Others have suggested putting the 3.0 back in. @aearch has stated that he has the short block but no head.

There is a lot of bias on here. People with more disposable funds are biased towards a path of least resistance that involves e9 experts. Folks that are handy are biased towards the “cheap and easy” row52 motor swaps.

Like the VAST majority of this forum, I have never in my life pulled a carb motor, and swapped it out for a fuel injection motor. I have wheeled motors in and out of cars but I haven’t ever been responsible for getting them running. Bolting up a hunk of metal is the easy part. I would be one bad wire or sensor away from a bricked motor. My bias is towards the the mechanical aspect of the install, and using a running car to take the mystery out of the engine management aspect of this job.

Even so, I am also biased. My approach is expensive for most. I’m terrible at many things but one thing I am very good at is finding inexpensive “things” with the help of the internet. I’ve been chatting with @aearch and he has been having a hard time finding a running car for an affordable price.

 

[Stevehose]

Rebuild his engine? The same S38 that was already rebuilt and never got running? Post that, he doesn't have an engine TO rebuild. The wise minds on here have predominantly opined "buy a running car and swap the motor". At least that's what I've heard 30-40 times. Based on the long history of this car and its issues, anything other than swapping in a known entity is just introducing another set of variables. At this point take the path of highest probability of a positive outcome...

He has his original matching engine

 

[tferrer]

I stand corrected! I'll try to refrain from offering any further advice. The one thing this thread is not short on is good advice. None of it appears to have been taken, mind you, but that's another topic.

 

[wkohler]

The problem for me is that sure he could get a 535i and pull the motor out (but that calypso car seems too nice for that and nice E34s are hard to find) but it’s not like that motor just goes in the car without anything needing to be done. The stock intake doesn’t work as-is in a coupe. Parts needed to get around that and the adaptations needed for those parts and plenty of other stuff that still needs to transfer over that it can be a daunting project with any number of pitfalls. There’s a reason people pay people to do stuff like this - they know the formula and how to do it. Is it cheap? No, but it will work if the right person does the work and that’s what you pay for. I am not saying Alan can’t figure it out, but it’s not pluck, plop, boom running car.

 

[aearch]

opinions are good -

Why would you ever consider rebuilding an engine when all advice is to go otherwise?

Someone please kill this thread and start a new one when the car is running...

if it bothers you so much to follow whats going on here -simply block it and dont read it. no since in negative comments - go somewhere else with all that.!! period.

no replies on this are needed the extent of this conversation has been 99% helpful and appreciatedlets please keep it that way.

to that end -ive been looking for salvaged 7 and 6's yet there are few around here.
hence the "idea" !! of rebuilding. i would have liked to rebuild my oem. -but it could only be a 3.3 and to me a waste of energy.
and power! since there's the wonderful 3.5 to be had.

 

[OCCoupe]

-ive been looking for salvaged 7 and 6's yet there are few around here.
hence the "idea" !! of rebuilding.
i would have liked to rebuild my oem. -but it could only be a 3.3
and to me a waste of energy.
and power! since there's the wonderful 3.5 to be had.

Speaking of 3.3 liter m30s. I LOVE the factory 3.3l m30! They are the most fun to drive. Like the 2.8 they rev all the way to redline without falling on their face. The 3.5 usually will peter out at 5,700 rpm. The 3.3l with 32/36 carbs is a really fun choice.

 

[Markos]

Speaking of 3.3 liter m30s. I LOVE the factory 3.3l m30! They are the most fun to drive. Like the 2.8 they rev all the way to redline without falling on their face. The 3.5 usually will peter out at 5,700 rpm. The 3.3l with 32/36 carbs is a really fun choice.

Also, I’ve read posting from our peers suggesting that isn’t easy to machine a 3.0 to 3.3. If you could somehow squeeze the largest m30 pistons in there (93.4 from an m90), you would arrive at 3288, just over a B32. In reality however, the B32 got its displacement with a crank that had 6mm more throw. Even if you wanted to go this route @aearch, you are spending more money sourcing a crank and/or pistons than you are on a complete M30B35 (or M30B32) lump. It is also worth mentioning that an M30 does not have the crankshaft reliefs cast into the block like you see in the B32+ M30’s. You need to pay a machine shop to carve those out of the 3.0 because it won’t clear an 86mm crank.

Lots of good points about the real estate issues with the late style manifolds. Keep in mind however that ****if**** it all works, fuel injection on a factory computer will not require tuning. Carb tuning is tuning, and tuning is where you will likely hit a wall (once again) with the new motor.

 

[aearch]

honestly i really appreciate all the comments. to some extent even the negative ones.
if i wanted to do this all "blind" without this site-- i never would have signed up here
so to speak.
there is no other auto website -ive noted before- that has such a huge extent of people and
knowledge to draw from.

JUST A FUN PLACE

From aircraft to electric cars: the very best BMW engines | BMW.com

In its 100-plus years of history, BMW has designed and built countless great engines. Join us for a look at our engine milestones through the years.

www.bmw.com

finally "REAL" wisdom has returned! for all you naysayers out there
youll have no place to put your comments as this portion of the topic has formally ENDED.!

THE 4310316 HUNK OF METAL SITTING IN THE REAR YARD IS GOING TO THE MACHINE
SHOP...!!!!-- TO BE MATED WITH THE LONG empty ,AND FILLED WITH ANTICIPATION
ENGINE BAY

to be clear im an excellent mechanic -been workin on engines and cars for 55 years.
also i have my full oem engine covered up in the rear yard.

 

[autokunst]

@aearch Just a quick, honest question. You mention above that you are sending the 4310316 block to the machine shop (same VIN as your car). But then you say the full oem engine is in the rear yard. What is the OEM engine if it isn't the numbers matching engine?

By the way, my current plan is to rebuild by original/matching engine. I don't think there is any downside to that plan. Best of luck with the build.

 

[aearch]

yes right its the orig engine
i agree rebuilding my orig engine is a thought
yet the reason i took it out is that its so way underpowered for the car
in my opinion
i just didnt like the lack power for it to get out of its own way.

 

[Markos]

Throwing this out there. Presume for a moment that @aearch goes with carbs. Maybe he is even able to source the B35 prepped carbs from @GolfBavaria’s old car.

If he finds an inexpensive car, he can install the cabs on the sitting engine. He can use a portable gas tank and electric rotary fuel pump to get the motor going. He can run the motor through a few cycles, and confirm that it is running well.

With this route, he has the benefit of a cooling system, battery, starter, etc. If he find a sub $1K car that was hit from the rear, mild front end damage, or basic running problems, it is a good option.

Unlike the aforementioned hassles of dealing with fitment issues, a carbed B35 or B32 will drop right in.

 

[aearch]

NO MATTER WHAT I REALLY WANT A CARB CAR
YET ITS VERY EXPENSIVE SETUP
ILOOKED AND CARBS ARE 12OO JUST TO
START AM I MESSING SOMETHING?

 

[OCCoupe]

Look at https://www.piercemanifolds.com/ they are here in the central coast. You’ll want a 32/36 setup.

 

[dang]

Throwing this out there. Presume for a moment that @aearch goes with carbs. Maybe he is even able to source the B35 prepped carbs from @GolfBavaria’s old car.

If he finds an inexpensive car, he can install the cabs on the sitting engine. He can use a portable gas tank and electric rotary fuel pump to get the motor going. He can run the motor through a few cycles, and confirm that it is running well.

With this route, he has the benefit of a cooling system, battery, starter, etc. If he find a sub $1K car that was hit from the rear, mild front end damage, or basic running problems, it is a good option.

Unlike the aforementioned hassles of dealing with fitment issues, a carbed B35 or B32 will drop right in.

Since i usually do everything three times I'd just install the motor in the coupe, put it all together and test. If the motor needs to come back out its a two or three hour job and it gets faster every time... spoken from experience.

 

[Markos]

Since i usually do everything three times I'd just install the motor in the coupe, put it all together and test. If the motor needs to come back out its a two or three hour job and it gets faster every time... spoken from experience.

Yeah I’m not that skilled or nimble.

 

[OCCoupe]

So Alan reached out to me asking about a 3.3L m30 and if he would be better off boring his current engine or finding a 3.3l and rebuilding it. Obviously the answer isn't straightforward and simple. There are a few factors, the first being condition of either engine and if they are worth rebuilding. One of the issues that we wouldn't know on the 3.3 are condition of crank and also the head. That said, I think it would be less expensive to rebuild a 3.3 versus boring out a 3.0. Alan also asked me about a parts list for what he might need to complete an install of the 3.3l so here it goes:

Engine:
-Complete gasket set including
-head-gasket
-oil pan gasket
-timing cover gaskets send upper cover to machine shop with head. -This needs to be the correct cover for a distributor
-early m30 valve cover for a distributor engine
-valve cover gasket
-freeze plugs
-oil pump shims
-head bolts and washers (yes you need new, no there's no argument)
-bearings & rings (machine shop)
-duct gasket
-Water pump GET AN OEM PUMP FROM BMW- decide which fan from which car.
-Power steering pump for e9
-power steering hoses high and low including feed hose from the resevoir
-alternator for e9
-radiator for e9
-cooling hoses the lower radiator hose will be determined by radiator and thermostat cover
-hose clamps
-thermostat
-carburetor intake manifolds
-carburetor gaskets to manifolds
-intake manifold gaskets to head
-carburetors
-fuel hose
-hose clamps
-air filter housing
-air filters
-hose from exhaust manifold to air filter housing
-hose from air filter housing to core support
-belcrank for an m30
-linkage rods from pedal bracket to belcrank and from belcrank to carburetor linkage
-both motor mount brackets
-Both motor mounts
-fan and fan clutch
-fuel pump (probably electric)
-fuel pressure regulator
-ignition wire set
-ignition cap
-ignition rotor
-distributor
-distributor o-ring
-
-about $500.00 in misc bolts, nuts, washers etc from belmetric

-bell housing
-transmission
-speedo cable
-gear oil
-Flywheel wheel
-clutch kit: clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing
-clutch fork
-clutch Master
-clutch slave
-hydraulic line and hose
-reservoir
-brake fluid
-pivot pin
-clutch fork retainer spring
-shifter mechanism including shift platform and all bushings
-driveshaft
-guibo
-center support bearing
-driveshaft nuts and bolts


Alan, at this point the car has been out of commission for so long that we don't and won't know what you might need until you get the car running. This includes the whole braking/hydraulic system. Master cylinders, slave cylinder (i don't know how the woke have let this get past them) brake calipers, and hoses. We don't know what transmission you have or anything relating to the m30 engine. There are a lot of question marks associated with every wear item.

This may seem simple; but in reality it is going to be a big project and expensive. I just kept seeing dollar signs as I was typing this out and I am sure others will continue to add to the list.

I also strongly feel that any shortcut that you attempt to make on this will only come around to bite you in the butt later which means it will cost you more to remedy the shortcut.

I am sure I missed more than something.

 

[Markos]

Wow comprehensive. Makes me appreciate the “throw carbs on an e34 535i and see if it runs. That plus all that transmission stuff above.

I’m a big fan of small experiments before going big.

 

[tferrer]

All looks pretty expensive. If there was reticence to spend $ on the S38 to get it running before, this all looks like it may be a situation of 6 of 1 or half dozen of another...

 

[dang]

Here's my simpleton thinking when it comes to this kind of stuff. Find a 3.5L motor. If it's in a car and you can hear it run and see if it smokes that's great, but if it's not, compression test, borescope the cylinders and go for it. Even if an M30 has 200k+ miles on it, which most do, how many miles is the coupe going to add to it? There are some here on the forum that put a lot of miles on their coupe, but I think that's rare. Most probably put 2-3k miles on it a year (I don't even do that much) so how long would the motor last before having issues?

(This same argument could be made for paint jobs. You don't have to have the most expensive paint out there, just paint that makes it look really good. The "longevity" of a paint job on a coupe is a hard sell since it doesn't see much daylight or wear and tear to a typical car so it's not going fade or degrade. Just my opinion of course.)

I guess I like to go with the odds that M30's are very very good motors to start with and if it hasn't been taken apart in the past and it still runs good the odds are in your favor. The other thinking is that it's a coupe and investing in a rebuilt/special motor is completely justified, and it is.