You'd need the manifold also because the spacing between carbs is different than other Weber manifolds, therefore the box won't line up correctly.
My vintage VGS air collector box project
- Thread starter Stevehose
- Start date
Wow!! VGS really came through with some choice documentation. Love that.
Ed
Ed
I REALLY like this intake setup.
Have you actually attempted to fit it on carbs that don't have the matching VGS manifold and it was a no-go?
Either I just added another product to your new line of reproduction VGS manifolds or it'll fit/can be massaged to fit just fine.
I do see that the VGS manifold does in fact have a rear-cantered offset, but it seems to me that's simply a design-element to more easily clear the thermostat-housing.
My thought is that you can't change the location of the head's ports nor the carb housings size and venturi location. >> So wouldn't the juxtaposition of the carbs remain fixed and consistent, too?
As well, dozens of various mfgs. tried their hand at casting M30 intake manifolds over the years, in different designs, and Webers, Solexes, Mikunis, and Dellortos all seem to fit those just fine. Can anyone compare the fitment specs of this to Dadywads repro Alpina box to see if they're similar?
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If being "reproduced" (loose interpretation), I would think the interface piece could be fabricated to match other intake manifold/carb spacing configurations.
The carb spacing is definitely not equidistant so mounting this to alpina or Korman manifolds is a no go. Also made evident when getting linkage to fit. As Autokunst mentions, it could be machined differently, but I bet you'd have to measure to each set of manifold manufacturers then machined to fit, it's a thick piece of aluminum, not a thin piece of stainless. You can see the spacing here:
I REALLY like this intake setup.
Have you actually attempted to fit it on carbs that don't have the matching VGS manifold and it was a no-go?
Either I just added another product to your new line of reproduction VGS manifolds or it'll fit/can be massaged to fit just fine.
I do see that the VGS manifold does in fact have a rear-cantered offset, but it seems to me that's simply a design-element to more easily clear the thermostat-housing.
My thought is that you can't change the location of the head's ports nor the carb housings size and venturi location. >> So wouldn't the juxtaposition of the carbs remain fixed and consistent, too?
As well, dozens of various mfgs. tried their hand at casting M30 intake manifolds over the years, in different designs, and Webers, Solexes, Mikunis, and Dellortos all seem to fit those just fine. Can anyone compare the fitment specs of this to Dadywads repro Alpina box to see if they're similar?
thanks for posting this Steve. this is really cool stuff to have.
Also compounding this reproduction issue is that on the air box side of this piece opposite the holes are small cast in trumpets:
Love the integrated trumpets. That is a really nice find Steve; and great service from VGS. These are the kinds of vendors we really should make an effort to buy from if we can. Keeping folks alive that offer this level of service helps the entire vintage BMW community.
As to reproducing this part, the VGS intake manifolds are so rare that I cannot imagine it would make sense. And a reproduction that would fit the Alpina/Korman setups would need to compete with the Alpina setup that is available, which would put a cap on the price you could get for the repro VGS unit.
As to reproducing this part, the VGS intake manifolds are so rare that I cannot imagine it would make sense. And a reproduction that would fit the Alpina/Korman setups would need to compete with the Alpina setup that is available, which would put a cap on the price you could get for the repro VGS unit.
I just need fo repeat that this design is infinitely better than alpina’s. Straight trumpets, booster clearance, etc. Also the Alpina box doesn’t have the trumpet bell. If you read about velocity stacks you learn how that bell has an important function.
I think the VGS box was ahead of its time. It is the same part that you would find on the factory s38/M88. If it really was from the e12 era, maybe they drew from the M1 plenum design. Granted, the Ti, Tii, and 2000 CS had somewhat similar plenums.
I think the VGS box was ahead of its time. It is the same part that you would find on the factory s38/M88. If it really was from the e12 era, maybe they drew from the M1 plenum design. Granted, the Ti, Tii, and 2000 CS had somewhat similar plenums.
Ok, not to beat this topic to death, but i was trying to wrap my head around this plenum being able to be used only with a specific VGS manifold and after a few mins at the computer I'm further convinced that the manifolds will not be a factor whatsoever.
I did a couple quick photoshop overlays (i only scaled orig pic equally and adjusted perspective slightly) and was not surprised at all with what was revealed...
it appears that even the mounting studs would align perfectly.
Don't get me wrong, Daddywad's Alpina repop is gorgeous and amazing, but you also need the angled runners, there's brake booster clearance issues, shipping from the UK, and your 'Jewelry' is hidden. Would an alternate, sexalicious, possibly superior, and period-correct option like this item be a bad thing to have on the market?
I did a couple quick photoshop overlays (i only scaled orig pic equally and adjusted perspective slightly) and was not surprised at all with what was revealed...
it appears that even the mounting studs would align perfectly.
Don't get me wrong, Daddywad's Alpina repop is gorgeous and amazing, but you also need the angled runners, there's brake booster clearance issues, shipping from the UK, and your 'Jewelry' is hidden. Would an alternate, sexalicious, possibly superior, and period-correct option like this item be a bad thing to have on the market?
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I have the box off the engine for a project, I could take some exact measurements for you if you'd like
thinking about that, it would be cool to put the individual throttle bodies from the s38 and its airbox on the coupe ... even with the m30.
I may have some interest if this type of box could be made to fit a Korman intake manifold setup.
Steve - further to your comment that the carb spacing is not equidistant, I think my spacing is also not equidistant. In looking at the diagram, the center bore to center bore distance from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 is 90 mm. The distance from 2 to 3 is 110mm because here you are shifting from one carb to the next. Similarly, 3 to 4 is 90mm, 4 to 5 is 110mm and 5 to 6 is 90mm. These appear to be the measurements on my car.
Can somebody with an Alpina airbox check these dimensions. If these are the same, I think a reproduction of the VGS airbox would mount up to a set of carbs with a different manifold.
Whether it would fit in the engine bay is another question. The VGS manifold not only shifts all three carbs toward the rear of the car, it also appears to alter their height relative to the bore. Neither the Korman nor the Alpina manifolds have these shifts. In the diagram, this appears to be a drop of about 30 mm. In Steve's car, however, it appears that this not a drop. Steve - can you confirm that the carbs are actually higher than the intake bore when mounted onto the VGS manifold in your car. When attempting to install a box like this in a car without the VGS manifold, the Korman tstat housing should avoid a problem with the lack of a rearward shift in carb mounting, however, a change in carb mounting height might make installation of the flexible hose between the air collector and the filter box more difficult.
3nsahalee - do you have the skills or know of someone who could actually make reproductions of this setup?
Steve - further to your comment that the carb spacing is not equidistant, I think my spacing is also not equidistant. In looking at the diagram, the center bore to center bore distance from cylinder 1 to cylinder 2 is 90 mm. The distance from 2 to 3 is 110mm because here you are shifting from one carb to the next. Similarly, 3 to 4 is 90mm, 4 to 5 is 110mm and 5 to 6 is 90mm. These appear to be the measurements on my car.
Can somebody with an Alpina airbox check these dimensions. If these are the same, I think a reproduction of the VGS airbox would mount up to a set of carbs with a different manifold.
Whether it would fit in the engine bay is another question. The VGS manifold not only shifts all three carbs toward the rear of the car, it also appears to alter their height relative to the bore. Neither the Korman nor the Alpina manifolds have these shifts. In the diagram, this appears to be a drop of about 30 mm. In Steve's car, however, it appears that this not a drop. Steve - can you confirm that the carbs are actually higher than the intake bore when mounted onto the VGS manifold in your car. When attempting to install a box like this in a car without the VGS manifold, the Korman tstat housing should avoid a problem with the lack of a rearward shift in carb mounting, however, a change in carb mounting height might make installation of the flexible hose between the air collector and the filter box more difficult.
3nsahalee - do you have the skills or know of someone who could actually make reproductions of this setup?
Too bad those trumpets aren't large/full radius. These flow much better that the traditional Weber velocity stacks. If you repro this box, make up a set that can be added (glued?)
If somebody is going to make a mold for a reproduction casting, why not just enhance the mold so that the casting incorporates full radius air horns? Alternatively, it may be simpler to eliminate the horns in the casting, and bolt in low full radius horns when installing the box.
ful radius air horns might present “undercut” issues for casting/molding. Hence my suggestion they be separate pieces. Maybe existing parts are already good enough.
I don't know a lot about aluminum casting, but I could see where bolting in a set of these might be a simple solution:
classiccarbs.co.uk
45/30 WEBER DCOE OR DELLORTO DHLA CARBURETTOR TRUMPET | FULL RADIUS | 30mm Long - Classic Carbs UK
This listing is for a WEBER DCOE or Dellorto DHLAtwin 45/48 Full Radius Carburettor trumpet
classiccarbs.co.uk
mmccusername
Well-Known Member
I have one of these VGS manifolds and would be very interested in a reproduction airbox. Unfortunately I don't have any skills that would be helpful in actually getting it done, but I would be a great customer.
Also, in the extremely unlikely event that someone sees another one for sale, please let me know.
Thanks,
Michael
Also, in the extremely unlikely event that someone sees another one for sale, please let me know.
Thanks,
Michael
Could be somebody’s lucky day:
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