not a fan of the duckbill rear spoiler, getting the air dam already, but don't disagree about saving the money.
The end is near....SCOTTeVEST's Baby
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Belgiumbarry
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CSl airdam , ducktail spoiler ( with the rubber top edge ) and eventually the wind splits... but on a street car the roof hoop is overkill ( just as the batman spoiler ) .... IMHO.
yep ... Madera Concepts is great ... they are also expensive, but as all can see, it looks totally worth it.
I just called Madera. Here's the rundown:
IF we send these parts, and they just need refinishing, no repair/rebuilding, $1,720. Best case.
Next, if my veneer has issues/problems or we want a new veneer, what is under the clear, $2690.
Removing clear, sanding veneer, putting clear back on it.
Timeframe: 10-12 days for just refinishing, plus 1 week or so to restore.
They will need to scrape off your oak veneer and apply the wood of your choice. So figure your are in the $2690 range.
wow. Not in the budget now, but thinking i NEED to do it now while windows are out?
Well you still have Bela as an option. You can always check to see if he has cores on hand, which can speed things up for you. His work is excelelnt as well. You don't need to do this now, but the dashboard is much much easier to remove with the windshield out.
Check with local furniture restoration shops and guitar restoration shops. They are used to doing fine quality veneer work. To do it right, it needs to be applied with a vacuum. Also something that shops are familiar with.
Yea, finally heard from Gary with some parts. More than I thought, but glad to get them ready to order. The one thing he said he couldn't find part numbers for was the replacement interior panels for the trunk. Apparently, my trunk interior is falling apart. What is the best source for this? Thanks so much!
We are trying to identify the pieces on the top end of the strut, 15, 16 and 17 but don't see them listed in the area below on this page. Any ideas? Thanks.
https://www.wallothnesch.com/vorderachse/bmw-2-5-cs-3-0-csl-e9/katalogbild-31-06.html
AND there are two parts on that page for 02, and can't tell the difference. Which one should I get?
https://www.wallothnesch.com/vorderachse/bmw-2-5-cs-3-0-csl-e9/katalogbild-31-06.html
AND there are two parts on that page for 02, and can't tell the difference. Which one should I get?
15 is the spacer under your fender on top of the strut bearing, throw it out. 6 is the strut bearing, 16 and 17 show the same part but you can’t order it that way. It will come with long studs which you will need to cut or put the spacer on top of your fender which looks tacky. The e12 strut bearing is cheaper and fits with the shorter studs too.
I wouldn’t be asking a body shop to make mechanical repairs, you can do that later with someone who knows what they are doing.
I wouldn’t be asking a body shop to make mechanical repairs, you can do that later with someone who knows what they are doing.
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
i agree with Chris , as far ofcourse concerning items they must demount for the paint job . Then they can better remount a new item instead of the worn old , they have to do it anyway.
On the other side , the front suspension works are not that more complicated as the work on the rear they do ... while the car is on the lift . I assume Scott wants do drive there away with a complete restored car
On the other side , the front suspension works are not that more complicated as the work on the rear they do ... while the car is on the lift . I assume Scott wants do drive there away with a complete restored car
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
At W&N i have indeed seen nothing for the trunk , except the sealing rubber around the opening.
Floorboards and side insulation can be easely made yourself
The elephant skin over the fenders is another story .... ??
Belgiumbarry
Well-Known Member
wait ! here you are ...
www.cs-werk.de/produkt-kategorie/nachfertigungen-fuer-bmw-e9/
www.cs-werk.de/produkt-kategorie/nachfertigungen-fuer-bmw-e9/
Thank you.
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Inside trunk wheel well covers have been remade by BMW in what appears to be a much more pliable, and hopefully durable, material. They still show as available from at least one online dealer that I've used. Part numbers 51471810889, 890 at about $150 per side. I bought mine about three years ago so as always with BMW and their vintage parts, supply might or might not be currently available.
As for the other panels, aside from the one that covers the tail light area, they should be easy to make. The elephant skin material is available from Carl Nelson and is a pretty good match.
As for the other panels, aside from the one that covers the tail light area, they should be easy to make. The elephant skin material is available from Carl Nelson and is a pretty good match.
As for wood refinishing, I used Bela and am very satisfied, although the finish does not look quite the same as the original. I can't say for certain but I believe the factory used some sort of a varnish or shellac that gave almost an oiled look. I suppose if you wanted to, you could have Bela re-veneer you existing wood with new French walnut and then try to find an old school furniture/instrument/boat craftsman to re-create the look. Unless I was restoring a CSL, I think that would be a little over the top.
Stopped by today to get an update. In sum:
BTW, I called my insurance agent to increase the coverage on BMW, and reduce on my 90 911. See below.
The current 6 month premium for the BMW is $148.90 and would increase to $168.91 with a value increase to $60k.
Current 6 month premium for the Porsche is $147.48 and would decrease to $123.78 with a value decrease to $30k
- identified needed parts for trunk covers, just the right side and bottom
- agreed we had all parts we needed
- learned Gary is also a mechanic and thus can easily install the parts I ordered
- learned that wood will not be an issue, although not quite sure why
- learned that April 1 completion date, and thus trip to California, is not likely. It will take longer but be done right
- learned that no rust in any place we don't know about and resolved
BTW, I called my insurance agent to increase the coverage on BMW, and reduce on my 90 911. See below.
The current 6 month premium for the BMW is $148.90 and would increase to $168.91 with a value increase to $60k.
Current 6 month premium for the Porsche is $147.48 and would decrease to $123.78 with a value decrease to $30k
Hi Scott,
The guys at Benny's are fun to watch. I feel compelled to see these gents succeed!
Mechanic:
I'm not sure who suggested that a body shop can't install suspension components. Pause for a moment and think about what type of work lands on their plate. They may not be replacing head gaskets, but it is *very common for body shops to not only replace suspension components, but to completely rebuild the surroudning mounting points. Think about your typical body shop that gets most of the work from insurance repairs (aka accidents that result in crunched fenders and bent suspension components).
Dashboard:
I need to hit the brakes ont his one as you have a few things going on. Firstly I wrongfully assumed that you had both the glass out, and the dashboard. Removing the dashboard is required to remove the wood. Removing the windshield is pretty much a prequisite for removing the dash (althout it is said that it can be doe with the glass in place). Removing the windshield will likely result in some minor repair of the lower windshield frame, particularly where the passenger wiper sits. That's a different ball of wax though. Figure several hours of labor to get the dash out. And several hours of labor to get the glass back in (it's a two+ person job). Their shop may have experienc with this since they do old hot rods. Twenty something guys doing inrurance repairs at a glass shop typically don't know how to replace the e9 glass. There is no glue, just a seal holding the windscreen in place.
Back to the wood. It appears that you have vinyl laminate over your wood. I think the big detractor for most is that this is oak. Oak has a very distinctive 1980's kitchen cabinet grain that is unmistakable, and not original to the e9 (no offense to the owners with oak cabinets). Your dash is supposed to have veneer, which is actually under your vinyl laminate. The veneer is very thin real wood of the desired variety that is applied to a plywood base. I can only imagine that your veneer has issues and someone went to walmart and bought a roll of oak vinyl at some point in the past. I did the same to my 1970's bifold closet doors in my college apartment.
So, to fix your dash you need to remove the windscreen, remove the dash. Disassemble the wood from the dash. Remove the wood from the door panel tops (this is easy). Then send it off to Madera, Bella, or your local fine woodworker. One thing that Bela and Madera will do that a woodshop may not tackle is rebuild the plywood core where necessary. Earlier I mentioend the rust repairs to the lower windscreen frame. What happens is that water enters the cabin at that point and begins to delaminate the dashboard plywood. The veneer comes apart but more importantly the dashboard wood starts flaking like a slice of baklava. So with all that said, there really is no "while you are in there" opportunity to harness at the moment. You may very well return to Benny's down the road to do this work, but I suspect that they have no intention of removing the glass at the moment. If you pull that vinyl off now, you will only be disappointed with what is underneath.
Sunroof Drains:
This one had me curious so I took a look at my parts car. I'm sure this is well documented but I don't have a lot invested in sunroof specifics. The rear drain is two pieces. The rubber hose runs from the rear corner of the sunroof down the c-pillar. Just below the c-pillar roundel the tube exits onto a sheetmetal funnel (I must admit this took me by suprise). The lower hose connects to this funnel. The lower hose runs along the front side of the rear wheel wells. This is likely concealed by the rear window regulators (the shiny sheetmetal panels inside your rear quarter panels. The tube then drains into the rocker. I suspect the two piece design was to facilitate replacement of the rubber drains. I don't think that the upper drain attaches to any fitting where it exits into the funnel. I'm sure that Gary discovered this fact when he blew out the lines. The funnel isn't sealed, it just uses gravity to direct the water. He will definitely want to run air through the tubes on both ends to clear the drain. It is feasible that junk collects in the funnel but there is no real way to get access to it, even on my stripped parts car. These pics probably won't make sense to you but you may want to pass them along. I'm curious to know if non-sunroof cars have the lower drain from the c-pillar down.
Trunk:
As reiterated in this thread and your WTB thread. You can get everything except the brittle plastic pieces that Gary was concerned about (be careful with those man!). The deal with your car is that you have a US 1974. A similar looking replacement part is available from BMW for 1969-1973 US coupes, and they also fit 1974/75 euro coupes which didn't have big bumpers. Another member mentioned that since you are doing a skinny bumper conversion, you can modify your trunk to match earlier coupes. There is a big triangle shaped support piece which served to meet the 5pmh impact standards. Honestly not a bad thing to keep, but you could make your car look more "euro" by removing it, thereby allowing the plastic replacement panels to fit. It looks like you would just cut the piece to follow the original radius of the wheel well. If you decide to do this (assuming you won't), I can give you the measurements of the area so the shop knows what to cut.
The guys at Benny's are fun to watch. I feel compelled to see these gents succeed!
Mechanic:
I'm not sure who suggested that a body shop can't install suspension components. Pause for a moment and think about what type of work lands on their plate. They may not be replacing head gaskets, but it is *very common for body shops to not only replace suspension components, but to completely rebuild the surroudning mounting points. Think about your typical body shop that gets most of the work from insurance repairs (aka accidents that result in crunched fenders and bent suspension components).
Dashboard:
I need to hit the brakes ont his one as you have a few things going on. Firstly I wrongfully assumed that you had both the glass out, and the dashboard. Removing the dashboard is required to remove the wood. Removing the windshield is pretty much a prequisite for removing the dash (althout it is said that it can be doe with the glass in place). Removing the windshield will likely result in some minor repair of the lower windshield frame, particularly where the passenger wiper sits. That's a different ball of wax though. Figure several hours of labor to get the dash out. And several hours of labor to get the glass back in (it's a two+ person job). Their shop may have experienc with this since they do old hot rods. Twenty something guys doing inrurance repairs at a glass shop typically don't know how to replace the e9 glass. There is no glue, just a seal holding the windscreen in place.
Back to the wood. It appears that you have vinyl laminate over your wood. I think the big detractor for most is that this is oak. Oak has a very distinctive 1980's kitchen cabinet grain that is unmistakable, and not original to the e9 (no offense to the owners with oak cabinets
). Your dash is supposed to have veneer, which is actually under your vinyl laminate. The veneer is very thin real wood of the desired variety that is applied to a plywood base. I can only imagine that your veneer has issues and someone went to walmart and bought a roll of oak vinyl at some point in the past. I did the same to my 1970's bifold closet doors in my college apartment. So, to fix your dash you need to remove the windscreen, remove the dash. Disassemble the wood from the dash. Remove the wood from the door panel tops (this is easy). Then send it off to Madera, Bella, or your local fine woodworker. One thing that Bela and Madera will do that a woodshop may not tackle is rebuild the plywood core where necessary. Earlier I mentioend the rust repairs to the lower windscreen frame. What happens is that water enters the cabin at that point and begins to delaminate the dashboard plywood. The veneer comes apart but more importantly the dashboard wood starts flaking like a slice of baklava. So with all that said, there really is no "while you are in there" opportunity to harness at the moment. You may very well return to Benny's down the road to do this work, but I suspect that they have no intention of removing the glass at the moment. If you pull that vinyl off now, you will only be disappointed with what is underneath.
Sunroof Drains:
This one had me curious so I took a look at my parts car. I'm sure this is well documented but I don't have a lot invested in sunroof specifics. The rear drain is two pieces. The rubber hose runs from the rear corner of the sunroof down the c-pillar. Just below the c-pillar roundel the tube exits onto a sheetmetal funnel (I must admit this took me by suprise). The lower hose connects to this funnel. The lower hose runs along the front side of the rear wheel wells. This is likely concealed by the rear window regulators (the shiny sheetmetal panels inside your rear quarter panels. The tube then drains into the rocker. I suspect the two piece design was to facilitate replacement of the rubber drains. I don't think that the upper drain attaches to any fitting where it exits into the funnel. I'm sure that Gary discovered this fact when he blew out the lines. The funnel isn't sealed, it just uses gravity to direct the water. He will definitely want to run air through the tubes on both ends to clear the drain. It is feasible that junk collects in the funnel but there is no real way to get access to it, even on my stripped parts car. These pics probably won't make sense to you but you may want to pass them along. I'm curious to know if non-sunroof cars have the lower drain from the c-pillar down.
Trunk:
As reiterated in this thread and your WTB thread. You can get everything except the brittle plastic pieces that Gary was concerned about (be careful with those man!). The deal with your car is that you have a US 1974. A similar looking replacement part is available from BMW for 1969-1973 US coupes, and they also fit 1974/75 euro coupes which didn't have big bumpers. Another member mentioned that since you are doing a skinny bumper conversion, you can modify your trunk to match earlier coupes. There is a big triangle shaped support piece which served to meet the 5pmh impact standards. Honestly not a bad thing to keep, but you could make your car look more "euro" by removing it, thereby allowing the plastic replacement panels to fit. It looks like you would just cut the piece to follow the original radius of the wheel well. If you decide to do this (assuming you won't), I can give you the measurements of the area so the shop knows what to cut.
@Markos thank you so very much for the very detailed explanation. I have forwarded to Gary. It is their full intention to remove both the windshields so hopefully they will be able to address any additional rust issues at that time along with whatever it is we are doing with the dashboard which honestly confuses me a bit but hopefully Gary will understand.
As I’ve said so many times, this group is amazing. I hope someday to meet everyone personally to thank them. I have no idea how much went into what started out to be a simple paint job.
Thank you so much
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As I’ve said so many times, this group is amazing. I hope someday to meet everyone personally to thank them. I have no idea how much went into what started out to be a simple paint job.
Thank you so much
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It is all personal taste. I like the clean stock look now but originally I wanted to homage Paul Cain's 3.8 CSi with the 635 style airdam and rear duckbill.
What ever you decide, almost everything is reversible.
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