3.0 CSL is undervalued... 74 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 3.0 (RHD) for $600 000!

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From the English version of the E9 sales brochure for the LHD CSL (8/74):

"The BMW 3.0 CSL can be fitted with a "town kit" - steel doors and chassis. Equally, with the aid of various other extras an individual CSL is possible: with air conditioning and tinted windows, power assisting steering, front and back eletronically operated windows etc".

So in other words, BMW's own definition of a city pack in August 1974 CSL is simply "steel doors and chassis". The other options are individual.

What complicates the issue is the fact that in August 1974 when this was written by BMW, it was during the production run of the last bat batch with VIN 4355001-4355057 (1/74-10/75).

So, was this "city pack statement" from BMW also valid for the earlier LHD 2275 cars - maybe? I will come back in this issue when I have checked with my older CSL sales brochures from 1971 and 1972 etc.

We know that for the RHD CSLs (2285001-2285500), there was a special version of UK city pack on almost all cars.

I think "Mix and match" was the word during the happy 70s!

Cheers
 
Given the above info, the attached, as it is today, is close to the way it was delivered in 1973 I suppose?
 

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Various options for the CSL

Considering the slow sales of the expensive CSL, and the various equipment they were offered with, as per the UK sales broschure, the fact is probably that BMW had to equip them with whatever a paying customer wanted, e.g. the one with a sunroof....!!
Then there were country specific regulations causing the 28 Swiss customers to have to live with the City Pack attributes. Just one example.

One of my CSLs was produced in April ´72 but then sat around in Munich for 5 months before the Italian importer (BMW Italia) dared to take delivery of it with the hope of actually selling it. Perhaps the colour (Colorado) was difficult to sell, besides the high price for a car with the same HP as the normal E9. I think this latter point of HP is one reason behind the sluggish sales. Had the CSL had 250 HP, it might have sold much better, defending its outrageous price. Just my own speculation.
 
After consulting my CSL archives, as regards to the City pack, I have found the following:

- German CSL sale brochure for the carb (1971): no info

- German CSL sale brochure for the LHD 2275xxx (9/72): no info

- English CSL sale brochure for the LHD 2275xxx (9/72): "In GB the 3.0 CSL is available with various special equipment. Details may be seen in the supplementary leaflet"

-English and French version of the E9 sales brochure including the LHD CSL (8/74):

"The BMW 3.0 CSL can be fitted with a "town kit" - steel doors and chassis. Equally, with the aid of various other extras an individual CSL is possible: with air conditioning and tinted windows, power assisting steering, front and back eletronically operated windows etc".

- German version of the E9 sales brochure including the LHD CSL (8/74):

"The BMW 3.0 CSL can be fitted with a "Städtepaket " - steel doors and CSi-chassis. Equally, with the aid of various other extras ..."

- Internal BMW document from 9.8/72 ("Schnell Information" from BMW to all BMW dealers) has the following info:

"Städtepaket (free of charge) option code 74.3:
Steel doors, front and rear steel bumpers, normal (CSi) suspension with anti-roll bars front and rear."

- BMW Press dossier for 1974:
City-pack at additional cost including CSi suspension; steel front and rear bumpers, Verbund glass windows, heated rear window, roof mounted interior light instead of the "rally map reading light".

-English supplement leaflet for the RHD 2285 CSLs:
"The RHD city package was specially selected for our GB customers and includes the following equipment:

Electrically heated windows
Racing steering wheel
Special Scheel adjustable racing seats
Boge shock absorbers
Stainless steel bumpers
Special black undercoating
Interior light
Special sound proofing
Special floor carpeting
Luggage compartment mat
Michelin tyres 195-70 VR XWX radial
Tinted glass
Electrically operated windows
Tool kit in boot lid
Internal locking bonnet catch"

To summarise (based on BMW's own info 1971-1974):
Carb = no city pack
LHD = city pack free of charge
LHD from 1974 and onwards = city pack to additional costs
RHD = special city pack to additional costs

City pack = steel doors and CSi suspension with front and rear anti-roll bars, front and rear steel bumpers, heated rear window, normal glass windows (roof mounted interior light).

Please correct me if I got it wrong

Cheers
 
Don't worry. Pretty soon hyperinflation will kick in and we'll get those 6 figure prices we've been waiting for. Won't buy much though....ENJOY YOUR CAR!!! That's the whole idea. Everything else is too much like work.- Paul
 
CSL 1973 said:
This nice Fjord RHD CSL was recently sold for 35 000 GBP (approx 52 000 USD).

http://www.munichlegends.co.uk/your-bmw-independent-dealer/45-bmw-e9-30-csl

I think the RHD CSLs in good condition also climbs in price and follows the general CSL trend with increasing values.

Cheers
Click to expand...

There IS NO general trend of upward prices for the CSL other than normal inflationary pressures. In your OP you made a false analogy to the RS assuming the CSL would follow in the RS's pricing footsteps. That hasn't happened and isn't going to happen and just you posting about it more isn't going to create some CSL boom.
 
chicane said:
There IS NO general trend of upward prices for the CSL other than normal inflationary pressures. In your OP you made a false analogy to the RS assuming the CSL would follow in the RS's pricing footsteps. That hasn't happened and isn't going to happen and just you posting about it more isn't going to create some CSL boom.
Click to expand...

Keep believing that. Do normal inflationary pressures apply to a 1982 honda accord or a Ford Escort?
 
Hate to tell you but I have been offered over triple what I paid for mine in 2006 and I did not get it cheap. They are on the rise for sure, recently a Bat sold more that an M1 at the same auction.
adami
 
eastsideM3 said:
Keep believing that. Do normal inflationary pressures apply to a 1982 honda accord or a Ford Escort?
Click to expand...

Do you know what inflation is? Do you know the difference between an appreciating and depreciating asset? You might want to bone up on Econ 101.

adami said:
Hate to tell you but I have been offered over triple what I paid for mine in 2006 and I did not get it cheap. They are on the rise for sure, recently a Bat sold more that an M1 at the same auction.
adami
Click to expand...

Anecdotal. The sales show otherwise. And you drive what by the way?
 
chicane said:
Do you know what inflation is? Do you know the difference between an appreciating and depreciating asset? You might want to bone up on Econ 101.



Anecdotal. The sales show otherwise. And you drive what by the way?
Click to expand...

This coming from a guy who is building a parts coupe? Do you understand the difference?? Give me a break buddy.
You might want to bone up on common sense 101..
 
eastsideM3 said:
This coming from a guy who is building a parts coupe? Do you understand the difference?? Give me a break buddy.
You might want to bone up on common sense 101..
Click to expand...

LOL. I'm sorry I don't know what a parts coupe is can you explain?
Then once you have accomplished that i'll explain the difference between an appreciating and depreciating asset.
 
Congrats adami to be owner of a carb CSL (Colorado?).

I think the first 169, the 167 bats and the 20 race cars will continue to be in the frontline of the positive CSL trend and rise dramatically in value. Higher prices compared to the M1 will soon be very common.

Only 169 carb CSL cars were built and today some 53 cars are traced compared to 430-450 traced M1 (almost all cars have survived).

Country distribution for the first 169 CSL when sold new 9/71-7/72:

85 Italy
66 Germany
4 Belgium
4 Spain
2 UK
2 Netherlands
1 Andorra
1 Austria
1 Finland
1 France
1 Sweden
1 Switzerland

BMW M1 is today priced around 150k Euro and of the 460 M1 cars (VINs), 396 were sold to private customers:

M1 delivery (VIN 4301001-4301460) 12/78-7/81:

49 Procars
1 KND
4 press cars
1 TüV
1 showcar
3 prototypes
3 Ital engineering
1 Bauer
1 not completed
396 to consumers (including BMW dealers)

Cheers
 
chicane said:
LOL. I'm sorry I don't know what a parts coupe is can you explain?
Then once you have accomplished that i'll explain the difference between an appreciating and depreciating asset.
Click to expand...

Maybe you'll figure it out when you go to sell your car, if you even own one. I dont care to discuss anything further with you, because you seem to get off on talking about something you dont know much about and refuse to acknowledge people who actually have given you factual information like Adami, myself, Bonhams auction, the Alpina CSL that resold twice within a year, the Inka carb CSL that sold twice. Do you follow the market of collectible CSL's and E9's? Do you have insight to what these cars were sold for and what the owners paid for them? Do you know what the above mentioned cars were purchased and resold for by their previous owners??? I suspect not, because if you did you wouldnt be making such ignorant statements like
"There IS NO general trend of upward prices for the CSL other than normal inflationary pressures".
 
eastsideM3 said:
Maybe you'll figure it out when you go to sell your car, if you even own one.
Click to expand...

I do indeed. Have you been over to my house and actually seen it? If not you prove once again you have no idea what you are talking about. But I will never sell.

eastsideM3 said:
I dont care to discuss anything further with you, because you seem to get off on talking about something you dont know much about
Click to expand...

But you do? Comparing the pricing of an E9 coupe to a Ford Escort? PAH...LEASE.

eastsideM3 said:
and refuse to acknowledge people who actually have given you factual information like Adami, myself, Bonhams auction, the Alpina CSL that resold twice within a year, the Inka carb CSL that sold twice. Do you follow the market of collectible CSL's and E9's?
Click to expand...

I do indeed and you will see that prices for all collectible vehicles have gone down due to the severe economic downturn. DO you understand that we are in a recession and that people are dumping their collector cars into the marketplace? And what factual info are you talking about. I saw the OP posted a bunch of numbers that had nothing to do with each other comparing city pack cars to standard lightweights to Bat's and race-cars.

eastsideM3 said:
Do you have insight to what these cars were sold for and what the owners paid for them? Do you know what the above mentioned cars were purchased and resold for by their previous owners??? I suspect not, because if you did you wouldnt be making such ignorant statements like
"There IS NO general trend of upward prices for the CSL other than normal inflationary pressures".
Click to expand...

IF you were even a little knowledgeable about coupes you would know that most coupes do not even keep up with inflation (you do know what inflation is don't you?). So a car that you assume has gone up in value isn't even worth what it was new (in real dollars).

I don't deal in anecdotal information as do you but rather go to resources who do this for a living:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5844
http://tinyurl.com/ydo562m
http://www.motorbase.com/vehicle/by-id/-691202264/finance.ehtml

This was always a niche car with a niche following, and there is nothing wrong with that.
I feel, though, that if the coming predictions of economic Armageddon come true, your coupe will be worth less than a can of frank and beans....
 
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